Broken finger rules out Whitelock

thrush is playing awesome this year but i do agree with u richard. if thrush fires again next year then maybe i'd rate him. at this stage thrush has good form. form is temporary, class is permanent.

Well Retallick went to school in Chch and has played for Hawkes Bay & BOP, so he's been around a bit.

You can't be a jouneyman unless you've travelled somewhere, no?

IMHO I think Romano and Retallick are journeymen/solid. If NZ play two 4 locks then there's an issue with the balance of the lineout. Although playing 2 tight locks might actually be beneficial against the French.

Retallick and Romano had no experience prior to last year. We can afford to carry a few inexperienced guys.

A few years ago, New Zealand's depth at lock amounted to journeymen. I'd rather have good young locks than journeymen. The depth at lock is much better than the depth at hooker or with the props. I imagine Hansen will shift Retallick to the 5 spot and play Romano at 4. It's makeshift, but I think it's better than using someone like Clarke.

So being young equates to squad depth? Given the specific role of a 5 lock I'd argue it's vital to have back-up. You can't just chuck another 4 lock in unless you have a player like Tom Croft in the back row, and NZ don't have a player like Croft.

I dunno - we've got two guys with experience (but not very much) who've not really played as a pair and if either of them gets injured we've got guys with no test experience as back ups. It's depth in terms of having a bunch of guys on a similar level, but not in terms of having proven performers as back ups. I do take your point about fringe guys - when guys like Ellison and Kahui are leaving it's pretty much impossible to keep a good backup for long.

It's not necessary for a three match series to have proven international depth and I'm not even sure how possible it is in this day and age to have bonafide depth at any given position considering how likely guys are to go offshore if they're only fringe internationals. The players available at lock this season is better than previous years under Henry. Whitelock is a loss, but he's a loss because he was in great form as opposed to the past few seasons where he's been scratchy.

I dunno, when you've got 4 guys 25 test caps between them, you could say there's an issue. I mean, yeah there's depth but it's not exactly proven international depth. It's a bit like a few years ago when we had Ellis, Weepu, Mathewson, Leonard etc. There were loads of halfbacks available, but no outstanding one.

'Tru dat'

I don't think you can really claim depth issues at lock when you have four young locks in the squad.

Bring back Buck. Met him once nice guy told me Zinzan and Robin Brooke where given the task of signing the team merchandise when down in bulk behind closed doors.

This is where the depth issue kicks in. Who is the next bonafide 5 lock?

That's true but he was also there during the poor period. For me the difference has been Mahonri Shwalger, Tameifuna and Brodie Rettalick . They add so much grunt to a pack that had everything else but.

To add further to that, the 1958 team was captained by Lucien Mias.The series panned out thus- 26 July, Newlands in CapeTown 3-3 16 August Ellis Park 9-5 Series won 1-0 by the French. Moncla captained the French team to NZ in 1961.Recommend you get a copy of French writer Denis Lalanne's ' The Great Fight of the French XV'.It covers both the 1958 and 1961 tours.

France won a series in South Africa in 1958 and Australia drew a series in '63.

France drew twice and Australia drew once during the Meads era, nobody won. NZ had a better home record during that time though.

Your selling Clarke short, he's not bad either.

Rettalick is head and shoulders above Thrush. Alot of people don't give him the credit he deserves. He is a huge reason why the Chiefs flaky pack of the past has hardened up. His workrate is outstanding. He may not run the ball in the open and attract the fanfare other locks do, but if you watch the important parts of his role you will realize just how good he really is.