On Monday night’s Q&A program, serial ranter and former Labor leader Mark Latham turned heads with his attack on the “tut-tut brigade”, who, in his view, are trying to push violence out of rugby league.
At first glance, it is easy to dismiss this as one bloke trading on the blokey culture of the game as a way of trying to prove that he is, in fact, just one of the blokes.
Surely the only thing worse than a politician trying to prove that he’s ‘one of us’ is a former corporate lawyer turned politician turning up to a television program in a leather jacket. Mark Latham is no ordinary bloke, and Malcolm Turnbull, try as he might, is no Marlon Brando.
Neither is fooling us.
According to Latham, if you love rugby league, you would have loved watching Paul Gallen reign blows on Nate Myles’ head. Gallen’s only crime, says the former Labor leader, was that his punches connected.
Amidst all the outrage about those punches, Latham’s forthright views went straight to the heart of the issue.
While I don’t consider myself the violent type, and have never had an enduring appetite for blood sports, he has a point. Without condoning the incident, it is difficult to make sense of all this anti-violence rhetoric in rugby league.
The fact is, violence, brutality and physical toughness is woven into the very fabric of rugby league culture. Get rid of it, and it’ll be hard to know what’s left.
I don’t get along to many league games, and these days only occasionally watch it on television. The sport lost me in my mid teens to other pursuits.
But as a child, I loved the game, brought up on a diet of Brisbane Broncos and Queensland by my dad, who often referenced the game in his own writing.
I never played league. I would never have been brave enough to face the physicality of the game.
But as a child, like many others I suspect, what drew me to league was it’s sheer physicality and no-nonsense culture.
There is something to be said for a bunch of extraordinarily ordinary guys cannoning into each other with such ferocity.
It wasn’t a culture that I could ever belong to in a meaningful way, but it was still fascinating.
Players like Gorden Tallis had me captivated, not because of his skill, but because of his courage and his ruthless physicality.
His famous collar-slinging tackle on Brett Hodgson typified all that I loved about league.
Friends of mine that played the game would tell stories of broken noses, dislocated shoulders and other traumatic tales which always seemed to end the same way – they popped it back in and kept playing.
Clearly, physical toughness is a characteristic that is drummed into league players early on.
The first game I went to as a kid was between South Sydney and St George, back when Nathan Brown had curly long blonde locks.
I have only two memories of the day out. The first was of a player having a spasm on the field after copping a sickening knee to the temple, but playing on anyway.
The other was the sheer roughness of the fans. A fat guy in a ill-fitting old Souths jersey sat in front of me, slowly tipping his beer out onto the ground as his attention was held hostage by a Rabbitohs attack.
Further down an even fatter man yelled obscenities at a Channel Nine helicopter that flew overhead.
I’d never seen anything like it. It was a little scary, but very genuine and very enjoyable.
But league is a strange game now, one that seems determined to constantly parody itself.
Like our other football codes, it’s been caught up in the quest to be all things to all men.
These days, AFL is supposedly the beacon of multiculturalism, soccer doesn’t want to talk about wogs and rugby union isn’t just a game for private school boys.
Rugby league is similarly trapped between two worlds.
On the one hand, it’s a profoundly working class game with working class roots. But on the other hand, it’s now a commercial juggernaut, with little time for any of the excesses of it’s former self.
Not that long ago, pretty boy Craig Wing was the outlier. Now it seems everyone is a walking work of tattoo art, complete with the waxed chest and the show muscles.
The Nathan Hindmarsh “cheap schooeys at the leagues club” type seems rarer by the day.
Players don the pink jerseys, but there is always another sex scandal just around the corner.
The players are meant to be gladiators and risk-takers on the field and pillars of the community off it.
South Sydney play in a pre-fabricated, soulless suburb in Homebush, which is both culturally and geographically well outside their traditional heartland.
The game just seems confused by itself.
It all comes to a head in State of Origin, where RnB artists with white moonboots share the space with our favourite over-excitable bogan Phil Gould.
The whole thing becomes a bizarre and thoroughly amusing spectacle.
Paul Gallen’s punches on Nate Myles weren’t particularly impressive or shocking.
As far as I’m concerned, fretting about violence in rugby league is akin to complaining about noise at a rock concert.
However primal and unexplainable it may be, if you don’t get some kind of enjoyment out of it you’re in the wrong place.
The punches might have been stupid, but they weren’t what worried me. Since he infamously took a drunken dump in a hotel hallway in 2009, I’ve always thought Nate Myles deserved a clip around the ear.
What worried me was how staged the whole incident seemed. It certainly wasn’t Artie Beetson mate-on-mate stuff.
Fights in Origin have lost all meaning. We’ve been so overfed with footage of guys belting each other that we know it’s just a matter of time before the players go through their routine slugging matches.
The players seem to know that we expect it of them. Paul Gallen certainly does anyway.
In the end, Gallen’s one-two on Myles caused a bit of bruising, but there was no real harm done.
Calling it “a great Origin moment” might be stretching it a bit, but worse damage has been done by crunching tackles that are considered fair and within the rules of the game.
Like most sports fans, league lovers know that their game is best at it’s rawest. I don’t envy the job of rugby league administrators.
How are they supposed to balance the fans willingness for blood with the pressure to stamp out violence? How do you legislate in such a complicated environment? Where does violence in rugby league start and end?
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Yes Exocet it may not be to your liking,but I am serious country and suburban rugby leage clubs reported the substantial drop in numbers ,because of the disillusionment with the SL war.It has been spelt out by the CRL,ARL ATT.Seniors and juniors alike. My own district was deeply affected ,yet you burble on coming from another code,and you expecct to be treated seriously.I attended a SL meeting at Sharks when they decided to go over,and you have the audacity to intimate that the war had little effect.I know people who left the code full top and have never returned to attend games. Melad you cited 2006 figures ,and used them as some sort of guide as to the position in 2012,and 2013 hasn't even concluded.You can suggest whatever you like,but if the latest figures are not there ,you are squirting in the wind. whatever the composition of playing numbers from juniors to seniors,in toto they are up,and no matter of sniping will change that position. When you get the 2013 figure whatever they happen to be ,then we can argue.Not something that happpened 7 years ago FHS.Rest assured they will not include tatsre numbers in their figures,when the coach of the Titans and CEO had sons who were involved in such a thing at their school with the AFL,and apparently were included,though they had no intention of playing. In WA WARL player registrations 2013 record numbers reaching 3,000.But of course its the the WARL website and affiliated States Mgr MCNaney citing the situation,so the figures must be massaged according to Clipper. You earlier had a shot at rl participation numbers in NZ,where their numbers are up,and indeed a new larger high school comp is being played mainly aiuckland but planning to expand in other non heartland high school areas. I look forward when time permits to shuffle over to the AFL threads,to do my share of sniping.Then again one has to show a bit of maturity,so I will desist FTM.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Didn't realise there was a statute of limitations re any response of that nature.D Smith was asked by the media,a few days later and he responded.The jury did their job whether you like it or not.And I believe he should have got two weeks at least. Cripes the tanking issue has taken years ,before admin decided it was possible,didnt exist, whatever came to their mouths. The same guy has intimated he will be speaking to the respective coache s stating this sort of violence is not on and will be penalised accordingly.I don't believe you or I have any ideas to the thoughts of D Smith and his integrity unit,suffiice to say,they have already skewered Tamou,so the kid gloves are off.The nil reaction was not universal so again you are wrong. Gallen BTW did not get off scot free,he stuffed Cronulla by his absence. And I will say it again @ I did no agree with gallen staying on the field 10 min at least and a tougher penalty b) At least there are penalties ie sin bins or sendoffs available c)players have been sent off ad sin binned in the past in SOOs,so it has happened.It hasn't in AFL because there äint no send off rules" d0 when holier than thou people are unable to look in their own backyards,whilst bagging rl officials,I find teh hypocrisy illuminating.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
I will respond in the nicest way possible,Roy Masters has for eons been the voodoo doll of AFL fans,and they say he is full of it and they take no notice.I will just leave it at that and laugh quietly. Roy has made comments about Cronulla in the past,and has been so far of the mark(excuse the pun) as to be out of left field.One minute he stated the NRL would not get the $1bn ,the next they would.Very much like the flag wavers who patrol NRL threads,who stated the NRL would be lucky to get $800m for their tV deal. Maybe we should ask GWS who appear to have choreographed their early quarters and then fade away.Direction from above perhaps LOL>
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Anderson did not virtually say it was to keep the game interesting,if you are going to flirt with the truth,it's a waste of time debating with an AFL spin merchant. One minute you guys bag Roy Masters the next quote him,two bob each way merchants. A guy by the name of Jennings was off in melbourne being the 3rd man in.I repeat not every SOO has included a punch up. + Bleat as much as you wish,put simply the AFL don't have a send off rule.Hall committed a dog act,and because there was no send off in place,he stayed on.One can argue whether players should or should not be sent of in rl games,the fact is there is a send off rule in place and at various times it is used.It doesn't exist and hasn't been used,and snactimonious flag wavers try to lecture all and sundry.Pull the other one. the ear bitrer was not snet of .because neityher ref saw it,it was ATT an allegation,subsequent checking proved the point and he was penalised by teh judiciary. Where did I suggest there were no incidents in the NRL am saying of late in the last few years in NRL games they have dropped off.If they are not sent off,at times they recieve punishment far in excess of the deed.Ask JW Hargreaves of Easts in what was a front on high tackle(5 weeks),or Wade Graham missing a match for a high shot.Keep digging. the send of rule is there as is the sin bin,it may well be used more,but it is there has been used,whereas the AFL does not. Hall gets 7 weeks Williams 19 I will repeat one more time,it's there is baeautiful blacck and white.
Exocet
Guest
Yes its why Gallen didn't get 10 mins - Anderson virtually said that it was to keep the game interesting and perhaps requirement for a NSW win )see Roy masters quotes above). Remember how this year the Critics were claiming that there was no send off in RL (discussed on Roar). I cant remember the incident but people if that incident wasn't a send off then there is no sendoff in NRL. Was that ear biter sent off in the Grand Final. The NRL borrowed the report system from AFL because they didn't want someone sent off who was later exonerated and to leave teams shorthanded. Same in the AFL and Halls action was in direct sight of an umpire. There have been plenty of NRL incidents. I remember Terry lamb punched a player on the chin in the play the ball and the ref played on. Williams and Boyd were exceptions to the rule which is why they are so memorable which begs the qn that SOO weren't always like this..
Exocet
Guest
Read Roy masters who claims refs are choreographing -its a big call considering the legal repercussions... http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/billys-lowpenalty-diet-has-players-tightening-their-belts-20110322-1c58h.html http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/fox-pundits-ignorance-just-isnt-bliss-for-codes-tragics-20120309-1upor.html http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/dramatic-licence-whistleblowers-in-danger-of-playing-to-script-to-ensure-theatrical-finale-20120806-23qe1.html http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/why-not-drug-test-nrl-referees-20130530-2nduo.html How hard would it be to get an AFL GF to be a tie - ask Milne to deliberately miss from 30 yards out??
Exocet
Guest
So Smith waited a week and the penalty was announced in less than 2 days. Can you explain the refs bosses stance
Exocet
Guest
I suggested adult numbers were down and you go read the 2012 report which gives a better reflection but it doesn't mention adult numbers. As if the Super league war caused adult numbers to drop - ru serious???
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Well thanks a lot for that Exocet, how noble of you for giving me that option,and as one from a ru background,indicates one can change his tastes. Now I ask you to show me where i have pretended the world is lapping to take it up.You made the statement,please back it up with proof.You brought up cynically the global game rubbisht d not. You must be confusing me with Sheedy. Rugby league is growing in other countries,more than at any time prior>that is hardly calling it global, never once suggesting people are falling over themselves.If you wish to put words into my mouth,then so be it.I''ll settle for the strong growth in Serbia,Italy and Ukraine for a start. If again you had bothered to read my posts,when I replied to another flag waver GoGWS when he noted the code encourages the punchup.He by implication made a ridiculous generalising statement,else we would have punchups in the u12 week in week out. I don't know whether you have heard of Jack Gibson a well respected rl coach,he called players who start fights as trying to make up for lack of talent.He wasdead against it. He came on a rl thread,sanctimoniously spin doctoring his code''s so called anti violence virtues.He was given an example of penalties with Hall in comparison to Williams,which says something.By implying the code encouraged punching and that meant NRL,then one had no alternative but to bring up the AFL incident which similar level to NRL. Again you are incorrect Smith the CEO of the code has reacted,about as high as you can get. If people are going to make offhanded generalisations without evidence over the code as a whole,then they deserve the retort they got. Smith (Cam)and Daviddid not and would not comment until.the penalty was handed down to Gallen.It's a funny thing called due process..IOW firstly the NRL judiciary decides on the penalty.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
If they self reported for a firing squad,they probably would be let off.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Exocet you might be named after a missile,but your accuracy tends to go astary.There has been dead rubbers. Gee you trolls try hard,but to no avail.Of course everyone wants to see a decider,but if it doesn;t happen it doesn;t happen. It means instead of 3.6m watching a dead rubber it might drop to 3.1m.Numbers your mob would like for a similar series. And Qld being dominant for so long,has actually increased interest and you prove otherwise,seeing you are the expert on all things rl. You are suggesting the networks ,refs are in collusion.Please provide proof?.Or are we to believe the tied AFL G/F in recent times was staged? Let me spell it out already 60,000 plus tickets had been sold prior to SOO1 for S003.If Qld had won the first game,there is no iron clad guarantee (though stats are on their side) that Qld would have won the 2nd.The Tv stations want compettive games of NRL and AFL,and do they get them all the time,judging by the brave,courageous GWS not as often as they would like.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
This coming from clipper who is quite happy to refer to other codes websites and official stats.The irony coming from this bloke is hysterical.The Sport England figures also did not tell the true picture.'The same bloke who spends his idle hours on a rl thread,looking to point score against rl and promote ru.He should know about massage my former code and his are famous for it 4billion. No Exocet I was not ignoring the adult stats ,if there were none spelt out in 2012,how the hell can I ignore it,if is not there in the first place.And I am trying to be polite ,with trolling. A little history in 1995 when SL started to rumble,the numbers playing the game adults and seniors dropped dramatically.There was a long term effect ,which has been reversed after 10 years. The fact of the matter is more kids are playing rl than ever before,more grils are playing than ever before,and WA and Vic have had increases this year. are more playing the game than at any time in its history,and Clipper can waflle on about Sport England who BTW(noted union numbers were down and he didn't want to know that) Rugby league does not include a try at school taster in its figures ,like a code or two I could name. Maybe you guys should check your respective sports officials and backyards ,before trying to point score. Try a little harder fellas.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
The guy was not looking and he gets a sideways smash not front on.The guy gets flattened, it's a king hit from Hall.And he stayed on field and then gets 7 weeks to Williams 19 weeks.They were both dog acts,and playing with pedantics does not change the fact one zot.That's Olympic class AFL type spin. Gallen whilst it was wrong,was facing the guy front on.Totally different to Hall and Williams.Hence the condemnation was nowhere likethe other two.Every NRL man and his dog condemned Williams.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
>I repeat no send offs in the AFL.Hall stayed on for one of the biggest dog shots I have seen and gets 7 weeks.Williams gets sent off and gets 19 weeks.Which code is stricter on that basis champ? Hall was dealt very severely by the tribunal 7 weeks compared to 19 weeks.Yep a new maths is in vogue. If Carmen gets his nose speard across his face by Plugger ,and stays on the field,what does that say. Then you come on with th biggest load of AFL spin and you are good at it,oh send offs may have happened in the last 10 years LOL.A send off rule is a non issue that's the biggest load of crap I have read.A team who committed the offence retains the instigator ,whilst the other team could have lost their best player.comment should be bottle for its naivety. If the send off rule had been used as IMO it should have been for Gallen,and if the AFL even bothered to show some bottle and use a send off rule,we may not be debating the point now. Then you go on thuggery is dealt with on the day by the players in your code.The players don't officiate sheesh,it should be up to the officials to send the culprit off. Yet despite the so called cleaning up of your code melees(love that sanitised description)meaning brawls still occur.Players get fined over the event,a token compared to what they are earning. I have already stated I believe Gallen's punishment should have been more.And i am a concerned rl follower. I repeat one more time the punching in NRL matches is few and far between.I have been folllowing the game for decades,and the last dozen or so years ,it s not a regular occurence,and if it does happen the ref uses the sin bin.There is pushing and shoving because it is a contact sport,that happens. And I followed the game before violence was the norm. Head highs,knees ,coathangers etc. You lost it,when you started to compare team contact sports and sending off ,with tennis.You get better with age GOGWS. The more i read you rl posts ,the more I am convinced you believe what happens in SOO applies to NRL and the code,and you stated so.I am further convinced you watch little NRL. Players stand shoulder to shoulder in AFL,and they still get whacked.I have seen enough side on cheap shots to make that point irrelevant. If you believe the SOO will continue with the anything goes mantra,good luck.And I suggest taking Tamou's offfield penalty handed out by the integrity unit(which makes some offield ones in the AFL of a similar nature pale),suggests tougher on field penalties will ensue. You accuse me of feigning my disgust which is an out and out lie,proving you are nothing more than a GWS spin doctor out for a bit of point scoring.
Crosscoder
Roar Guru
Please use your optics Exocet for what I have stated in earlier posts,that Gallen should have received at least 10 min in the bin or sent off.I have never deviated from that view since Origin started,and I was around then.And you call me an NRL spin dctor,coming from an AFL tragic LOL And as an AFL spin doctor ,it goes to show you know little about the history of SOO.The reaction for this sort of thing by the usual suspects has remained virtually unchanged.You cite Brett White and Laurie Daley and Price what do you expect them to say. Did you hear or read Renoufs,Tallis,Smith's reaction ,quite the opposite. The response of the RL community is no different than it was,when Price was knocked down in brisbane.The pros and the antis.And you are telling me how to suck eggs. Do you realise the biff,has not happeneed in every SOO game. If you believe this sort of thing will be treated lightly in future with Smith ,then good luck.
Exocet
Guest
Clipper I was being polite...
Exocet
Guest
CC You are entitled to watch what you like but just don't pretend the world is lapping to take it up. BTW you say don't judge the NRL on SOO occurrence then pull out Barry hall from 5 years ago. We will say it again it was the nil reaction from officials that was the problem - Smith took a week...
Davey
Guest
Damn Straight
Roar Rookie
Haha, I probably should have put a :) after that post mate, it was a poke in jest. Good to see the passion here though boys, keep it up. As for being a rookie, well I do admit that I have wanted to publish some articles, but I'm building the courage. Just being honest. It's a tough crowd around here! ;)
Really!
Guest
I am a fan of both codes, but to be honest both have been a real letdown for me personally this year! Actually i would use the word boring! Maybe both codes don't have enough players to fit teams!