Bombers' AFL chief defends Watson

There you go, that is really good stuff, keep up the good work.

SteveM in a past life was called Madame Defarge!

RedB, Keep up the good work, you deanp and maguire are priceless.

SteveM, There is a difference between believing something will happen & agreeing with it. A fine has been likely from day one.

Peter, I don't think there are any residual effects from particular drugs. And I don't agree the Bombers are the only team running out games better. There have been some big comebacks this year. Earlier on it was Geelong and there have been others. Why didn't Essendon run out games as well last year when there would have been a more immediate effect if they were taking drugs? As for Nic Bideau he wouldn't have a clue what Essendon players have taken and nor do we other than AOD-9604. That being so he's in no position to make judgments about anything. I think he was probably asked that if Essendon took this or that would be there be residual effects? He gave his answer but others including the St Kilda doctor and another expert on the AFL staff said he was wrong. We'll know everything in a few weeks when the inquiry is finished. Obviously I'm interested in the results even though I switched off any interest in pro sport.

If they charged me retrospectively for taking a substance that wasn't banned when I took it I'd say that in retrospect I didn't take it. The whole ASADA thing gets more ridiculous the longer it goes on. We don't even know whether it's a big scandal, a storm in a tea cup, or something the police should be investigating. The emergence of Shane Charter as a key figure is disturbing. Outside of the alleged drug use I believe there's been a crime committed at Essendon that involves the club being invoiced for substances they neither wanted nor used. The supplements were reportedly $100,000 over budget. It's hard to see a club spending $100,000 on substances, let alone being $100,000 over-spent. No receipts for payment of those invoices have been produced and if they were paid I find these absence of receipts rather odd. Why can't those who supplied copies of the invoices provide copies of the receipts? The Age and Herald Sun are working hard at building a circumstantial case against Essendon but they could be barking up the wrong stump. I won't be at all surprised if ASADA ends up getting bitten by their star witness.

spot on or though I do think charging them with a retrospective rule change is a bit rich

RedB, As last you agree, Essendon has brought the game into disrepute.

The AFL, Essendon and some here keep alluding to inside information or evidence that will eventually exonerate the Bombers. All I can say is that this information must be compelling and definitive if they are to escape sanction. Come one RedB - what do you know? It can't be too 'inside' or 'confidential' if you know what it is - spill the beans mate or stop belling the cat.

You're right Phil, everyday this drags out and the club or AFL tries to play on and deflect responsibility, it's undermining the entire game. It's a turn off for fans and for parents who are considering letting their kids play the game. I don't agree that their drug program hasn't helped. Reports lately have pointed out, based on statistics, that the Dons have the best endurance and late-game ability in the entire AFL. Sam Edmund from the Herald Sun says "statistics reveal James Hird's men are going hardest for longest. Rather than showing signs of fatigue, the Bombers actually get stronger late in games." and "The improvement in the Bombers' fourth quarter output from last season to this season is remarkable. Essendon has gone from a disposal differential of -3.6 (ranked 15th) to +14.5 (1st)." and the consensus is that those results are strongly related to the residual effect from 2012: "Essendon assistant coach Mark Thompson last year said the club's 2012 training program was never about immediate results."; "Athletics expert Nic Bideau, who managed Olympian Cathy Freeman and coached Craig Mottram, told the Herald Sun in May he had no doubt there were residual benefits." But either way, whether it has helped or not (it has), in my opinion, the saddest thing is the ducking and weaving in the media to avoid responsibility. The PR work to downplay, brush off and attempt to switch focus away from the scandal. Not only on the part of the EFC, but the AFL as well, who's been deafeningly silent on the issue. By the way, where's the AFL president this last week? I've heard reports he's on holidays. Meanwhile one of the biggest scandals to hit the league in its entire history plays out.

I've now heard enough about supplements and peptides, legal or otherwise, to turn me off professional sport forever. And that includes AFL. If winning is that important I've got better things to do. The Herald Sun today says WADA is looking at retrospectively banning four substances used by Essendon. Retrospectively? If WADA was doing its job they would have been banned already. I've got my head around what Essendon's supplement regime was all about last year. It was based on recovery, which the players needed help with, after the punishing physical program of Dean The Weapon Robinson. That it didn't work is more than obvious given the record number of soft tissue injuries at the club. The program was designed to push players beyond their limits and aid recovery with groundbreaking new supplements. It was intended to be legal, quite possibly was, but it highlights how performance 'experts' have infiltrated footy via sports science departments and are fast bringing the game into disrepute. What is even more disturbing is that these substances are readily available and with all the publicity kids at suburban and regional clubs might be to tempted to try them out themselves without supervision which could be dangerous. I suspect Essendon learned its lesson last year and is having it well and truly reinforced this year. Some kind of punishment awaits. Whatever it is it won't worry me. I've switched off.

If you believe The Age someone at ASADA is leaking information about the investigation. That's a question for Richard Ings, because is anyone is leaking he will be their contact. But I don't believe it. If anyone is leaking heads should roll and News Ltd would be really upset and whining loudly.

They're not going to act on your petition. There's already a danger it could end up in the courts and they don't want urgers exacerbating the situation. There's an investigation almost completed and if they act against Jobe Watson now and he's exonerated they could wind up paying out substantial damages. The Stephen Milne case is different. He's been charged with a statutory offence.

Macca, Thymosin alpha, the legal version has been shown to reduce inflammation, and so would be very handy in recovery. I'm not convinced that Charter's advice to Dank re beta 4 being recommended to Bomber players is significant. The administration regimen for Thymosim alpha is similar and I'm surprised Jake Niall and his mates at Fairfax didn't check that. Maybe it doesn't suit their agenda. For example, where a plurality of alpha thymosin administrations are provided, the administrations be spaced over a course of, for example, one week, ten days, two weeks, or one month. In some embodiments, at least two consecutive alpha thymosin administrations are spaced apart by a period of time ranging from about 5 days to about 10 days, e.g., about 7 days apart for approximately weekly administrations of TA1. You can apply Ockham's razor here and the simplest explanation may well be the right one, but it's starting to look a bit more complicated than that.

Well, AFL deputy chief Gillon McLachlan threw a grenade into Richard Ing's fire today by saying the status of AOD-9604 was still confused and that he didn't know whether it was banned or not. In other words he doesn't know whether it is covered by WADA category S.0. In regards to other matters David Evans yesterday spoke of people external to the club, and I'm happy to conclude that he was referring to Shane Charter and possibly some of his more disreputable friends. Evans said: "It is very important to state that new information is still being uncovered about what may have occurred at the club in the 2012 season, including actions by people external to our club.” It appears that money has gone missing from Essendon and Dank was reportedly sacked for the supplements budget being $100,000 overdrawn. It's reasonable to wonder whether some people were filling their own pockets and whether supplements billed to Essendon were diverted to private businesses? Back in April Charter told police reporter John Silvester that an organised crime network wanted him to spike AFL players' supplements with illicit drugs as part of a plan to blackmail them into joining a match-fixing ring. I've suspected from the start that blackmail may have a role to play in this whole affair. A criminal involvement looks more likely every day. I'm certain Essendon was not involved in anything untoward but it looks as though some lax administration may have opened the door to some questionable characters.

Essendon FC or the AFL can suspend without an ASADA notice. In fact, they must. To not do so is sending the message: "we won't suspend you until ASADA tell us too". This debacle is undermining the integrity of the entire game. Compare this situation to Stephen Milne, he's stood down by his club, and this decision is backed by the AFL; Milne hasn't admitted to anything. Whereas Watson, the captain has, and in the most public way. As Peter Bell said recently, it's turning our game into a laughing stock. In any other game an athlete would be suspended about 3 seconds after making such an admission.

As I said, I'm not having a go. But if 6 months is what is given to 10-15 players it would wipe them out for a year I guess. Personally I think it will be a hell of a lot more, to a lot more people and more than just players at Essendon. Interesting times ahead.

REdb - Waht Sacntions do you expect the club to get?

Franko, Where did I say that there won't be a sanction? Essendon is without doubt facing a "bringing the game into disrepute" charge due to its loss of control/corporate governance of the HPU and Sports Science section. A big fine is most likely then there will be degrees of penalty when facts emerge. Today's report is nothing new. It is speculation. Did you read the part where Fairfax media suggest the players were vague? That is code for we have no evidence that X drug was taken we just are drawing dots in a certain way. There are other lines that can be drawn and one of them relates to the expenditure by Dank when at the club. There is a belief that not all the drugs stayed at Essendon. Receipts of these drugs are considered a smoking gun by ASADA (fair enough to), but if Dank was sacked for unauthorised expenditure in Sept 2012 (allegedly) then what does that tell you when combined with the belief he is also allegedly involved in a peptide supply business. Dank is being investigated for his involvement with other sporting clubs, not James Hird or David Evans. People should pay more attention to following the bouncing ball, that's what ASADA are doing. If the worse case occurs and Essendon players are proven to have taken banned drugs then I beleive a 6 month ban is the most likely result due to their co-operation and mitigating circumstances. That's just my opinion.

Franko - I think Redb is trying to say that Dank actually only injected the Essendon players with Glucose or saline or some other cheap ineffectual substance and charged them for the actual drugs while actually selling the drugs a second time through his business.