Rebels show there is no room for trouble makers

If we are going to be like that the Rebels have won and played some of their best footy without them. You are an intelligent poster normally Chivas so if you dont understand my post then so be it...

HILL found out the hard way - nurse mugs and they will die in your arms AND take you with them. It is time for strict discipline as there are many waiting in the wings to take the place of BEALE and O'CONNOR. If any coach takes these blokes on he has scant regard for his own future in Rugby.

EXACTLY. Deans is the scape goat for the ARU

I think it's true to this extent. If their behaviour is good enough for the Wallabies, it has to be good enough for the Rebels. In saying that, I think the Rebels should have been stronger, earlier, which may...may have helped all round.

So much for your strengths, Mr Beale. Do you have any weaknesses?

Well I would think whether they win the wooden spoon or not has quite a lot to do with personnel. Looking for excuses doesn't appear to me as a unifying force to win games. I changed my underpants didn't change too much. Are the changed with coach and CEO game changers or more akin to changing name from J2 to J3... Jury is out for me. But how do supporters feel about the changes. I haven't read too much on it at all. Does it register in Melbourne at all, like for example the publicity that came with Zchiekas appointment. I know all the attention doesn't change anything. but seriously I have heard virtually nothing... Which bought me to my question regarding the significance of these changes. Personally I think JOC and Beale are pretty good players who look better than some of the options Melbourne has. So if it's not personnel who determine where a team ends up in the standings I don't know what else it might be. And I think selection decisions do determine results. But that is just me.

@Chivas: Isaac Moses, is that you bleating that the Rebels have managed to limit the commission you'll get on Beale signing a contract? Seriously, the only people who could be cross at the Rebels announcing they were dropping out of the bidding for Beale could be Beale and his management. The Rebels were clearly interested in Beale despite his off-field *ahem* indiscretions, so their decision not to participate further in contractual negotiations can't really be seen as a slight on his personality or a judgement on his ability to deal with his off-field issues through rehab. Rather, all the public announcement does is signal to other teams (ie, the Tahs, not to mention any ARU top ups) that they shouldn't be tricked into paying too much for Beale by Beale's management because they will be bidding against themselves. Indeed, if it's true that Beale had told the Rebels he wasn't interested over 10 days ago, the only people being dishonest here were Beale and his management!

I think you're missing my point. Where they were born doesn't matter - if either of them were in Australia they would have been on the bus as soon as they appeared for Tonga or Samoa. Ten out of 150 players isn't insignificant, and their coaches clearly think those players are better than other alternatives. So the squads are stronger than they otherwise would be and depth for the All Blacks hasn't been eroded.

(look at the Chiefs: Schwalger and Taumalolo spring to mind). not good examples to back your case - Mahonri Schwalger moved to NZ in school days and had played a full six seasons of provincial rugby before getting hisi first Super contract Sona Taumalolo moved to NZ at 19/20, and played eight years of provincial rugby before getting a contract So neither were the degree of imports you suggest. They were listed on another thread - there are just 11 players in NZ's 5 Super franchise squads not eligible for NZ - incl the one Japanese player. Of the other 10 some were born in NZ but chose eg Samoa/Tonga through the grandparent eligiblity laws. Auckland-born Blues player George Moala an example of this, represented Tonga U-20 so ineligible for any NZ selection.

Thanks for the original thought. Any numbers to back that up? Didn't think so. Whining about a theoretical team for next year already, a new low.

You need to identify talent at primary school level already, but that only pays of in 8 to 10 years time.

I'd like to see somebody give Beale a run at twelve, just for a game or five to see whether my hunch is correct...

No insult intendid, just thought they needed a place where people are still real people and that could rub off on them. Then there's the added bonus of having to high profile rugby ambasadors to help with the recruiting of economic refugees at under twelve level seeing that Aus has now embarked on the NZ model of developement.

I agree you breed them well, but why do so many of them turn into @#ts when they arrive in Australia? Just last weekend a large group of islanders crashed a party and threatened people with Knives at Balls Head.

I saw that earlier and I now wonder what the legal advice would be on the nature and extent of a rugby organisation employer's duty of care, liability and such.

Probably wise that comment has been edited...

Something tells me you have intimate knowledge of what has been going on at the rebels BR. Your reference to his driving is disturbing to say the least...

Chivas the CEO is new to the role, the coach has been removed as have two players with clear off field issues and in Jocs case perhaps on field issues as much as off. At this point I am not sure what else they have done within but that appears to be a start to building a club on solid foundations. Whether they get the spoon next year will not determine whether or not ridding the club of those two players was right or wrong.

Funny thing is NOS, the rebels didn't feel that way a week ago.... How does that work?

New Zealand don't hate the franchise model (I'm a New Zealander btw). They just don't like the decline of provincial rugby. I think the Super Rugby season is too long, and that there is too much international rugby played. Reduce the amount of both and all that'll do more to address the decline of provincial rugby than anything else. Australian rugby was doing fine back when it had three teams - the teams were competitive though, and that's important. I don't care about the AFL and NRL; they can have a million teams if they like. I just want to see some good rugby. If there is that, then we're 90% of the way to addressing this "decline" in Australian rugby. My suggestion was allowing PI and Argentinean players to player SR in Australia - this will strengthen the teams; improve the quality, and hopefully help develop Australian players because they'll be playing in and against better teams.