Picking an Australian XI for the third Test

This "your best batsman should bat at 3" is absolute nonsense - it has been leapt upon by everyone who wants something easy to beat Clarke up with. Your best no3 should bat there - it is a different position entirely to 4, 5 and 6. Ponting was our best bat, but he was a natural 3. Before him? Steve Waugh didn't bat 3, Mark Waugh didn't bat 3, Border didn't bat 3, and they were all our bbest batsmen at one time or another. Was Tendulkar not India's best when he was batting 4? Does Kallis bat 3? Clarke is not a no3, any more than he is an opener, and it is madness to weaken a strength to try to plug a weakness. Given the runs he made at 5 I think we are bonkers to consider moving him. I hope they give Khawaja an extended stint to get settled there as I think he could be the right answer, but if he's not we keep looking - we don't bugger up the one strength in our batting line up for some misconceived pipe dream about the way things are "supposed" to be.

Dave Warner's hammered a hundred today against South Africa A. An attack featuring Marchant de Lange and Kyle Abbott. Both test capped. de Lange arguably the fastest bowler in the world That's more than enough proof for Warner to play the 3rd Test.

u seen how swann is tearin it up over there, we need one spinner

You want pace, Patty Cummins needs to play, hes Australias best upcoming player, he is a jet and should be given game time, i also think voges should be in at number 3 and khawaja at 4, voges, like katich is tearin it up in county cricket, not that my opinion matters, but heres my starting 11: Watson Katich Voges Khawaja Clarke D.Hussey/Ferguson Haddin Siddle Cummins Harris Lyon 12th man- S.Smith S.Marsh, Coulter-Nile, Hilfenhaus, Agar, Mitch Johnson and even rogers i think are unlucky to not make my final cut, if injuries were to occur, these would be the players i look to first, and as you can tell, i am west australian, but there is quite a bit of talent coming out from my state. Pattinson is not in because he is injured and will miss the next test anyway. Khawaja is the future of our club as is cummins and soon, coulter-nile and agar will get a go, i do see great things for us in the future, just not at the moment, every team has to go through a rebuilding stage at one point or another, and for a good 10 years there we were the best in the world, so give your national team a little slack!!

Jonno I thought long and hard about Cosgrove - his last two years have been his best at first class level - and who cares how big he is - he knows how to bat. Cheers for the pick-up on the analogy too. Martin

My side would be: Warner Ferguson Khawalja Clarke Burns M.Marsh Paine Faulkner Siddle Bird Ahmed This is the side hopefully for first test in Brisbane, if you don't play Ahmed, maybe Sayers, Starc or Cummins depending on the pitch. Other squad Memebership would be Lyon, Maddinson, Wade and Butterworth. Pattinson depends on injury. Cosgrave should be in on weight of runs, one of best bats in Australia, fitness may be a concern

Just to add, it was Malcolm Knox who drew the analogy between Watson and Hooper: “The Carl Hooper of Australian cricket remains as he ever was, a mercurial talent who would have been an added bonus in a winning team, but is asked to shoulder more than he can handle as a leader in a losing one”. - This I can agree with. ie lessen his responsibilities and he might be able shine.

You've got a feel a bit for Cosgrove. His form over the years should have warranted a place in the test side. Much like how we won't see another Merv Hughes or David Boon in the Australian side, we won't see Mark Cosgrove make the cut. I think it's a bit appalling really. Another thing: Not picking Shane Watson because he's the Carl Hooper of Australian cricket? Okay, I take it that he's not fulfilling his potential, that analogy is clear, but you forget that Carl Hooper was an element of the winning sides of the West Indies in the late 80s and early 90s. A brilliant slip fielder (not quite as good, but comparable to Mark Waugh) and handy spinner. Yes they required more from him in the Windies decline of the mid-late 90s and his inconsistencies were underscored until he was eventually dropped. But I still think that comparing any international player to Carl Hooper is no insult and certainly not a decent reason for dropping a player in a team facing a crisis. Okay, that rant aside, I think we need to consider some things before picking an XI - are we looking for a short term (a team to restore some pride and perhaps pinch a couple of the remaining 8 ashes tests), mid term (a team to rebuild for the next two-three years), long term (a team for the next four-six years) or solution to all of the above (ie players that will transition/retire between these periods)? For the latter, and based on the current Australian cricketing stocks, I would pick (adequate reasons for these selections have been given in other posts above): Silk (long term) Cosgrove (mid term) Khawaja (long term) Clarke (mid-long term) Katich (short term) Watson (mid term) Paine (mid term) Siddle (short-mid term) Pattinson (mid-long term) Harris (short term) Ahmed (mid term) Short list of other players competing for spots, depending on conditions, injuries etc.: O'Keefe (mid term), Lyon (long term), Agar (long term), Smith (mid-long term), Bird (mid-long term), Starc (mid-long term), Faulkner (mid-long term), Hartley (mid term), Rogers (short term), Hughes (mid-long term), Wade (long term). But realistically, and returning to the main thrust of this debate (ie picking an XI for the 3rd test) CA will never allow so many changes, nor will they tinker too much with the batting order. Given the short turn around and picking an XI from their current squad: Watson Rogers Khawaja Clarke Smith Hughes Haddin Siddle Harris Lyon Bird (note that the tail is highly unlikely to wag in this XI! Very alarming! LOL)

harris must be picked full stop!!

I cut my comment in two because my first posting was already pretty long. Now my comments for the rest of the XI. Time to play the Fawad Ahmed card. Agar at 19 has a terrific future ahead of him but unfortunately at the moment he is so affected by nerves that he cannot bowl properly. He is gripping the ball too tightly. This situation is not likely to improve overnight. In time as he gets used to the limelight he should learn to relax more when he plays international cricket. And he will be a super asset for the ODI side. Ahmed appears to be a good bowler, with good turn and control. He has been taking wickets for Australia A. And as a former refugee from Taliban country he has no doubt been through enough stressful situations that he isn't going to fear anything that can happen on a cricket field. I would have Chris Hartley in as keeper instead of Haddin because he misses fewer catches and stumpings, but that was my opinion way back when the squad was selected. Pattinson's form seems ot be affected by his injury. Give him a rest. Sorry, "informed player management." Rhino hopefully will be good for another outing given the Second and Third Tests are not back-to-back. Cannot drop Siddle after 5-for in the First Test. Therefore it's Starc, Faulkner or Bird for the final pace slot. All strong candidates in their own ways, so it's a line-ball call but my gut instinct says Bird. An excellent containing bowler as well as a wicket-taker.

I'm going to be contrarian and say that we should keep the same top six for the 3rd Test. We were well in the game up until the ball that dismissed Watson in the 2nd innings. Watson: look as his performances in the lead-up games: 90 and 109 in his only two digs. Including the first two tests, he is averaging 51.33 in the first-class matches on the tour so far. His batting in the 2nd innings at Lords was a masterclass of textbook batting, scoring at a run a ball in swinging conditions against one of the best attacks in the history of the game. That is, up until the ball he got out, a ful inswinger. If he wanted to score off that ball he should have driven it past mid-off instead of trying to play across the line. Also, his bowling average is 30.98, versus for example, Starc at 33.02. If you could get enough overs out of him (he managed 15 oves for just 11 runs in the 2nd innings of the First Test) he would be worth his spot purely as a bowler. He is a class batsman AND a class bowler. Have faith in him. Rogers: His recent form in Australia and in England justify his selection. A good foil for Watson's more aggressive style. Give him some more chances. Khawaja: Top-scored in the 2nd innings with 51. Not bad for a young guy batting at 3 against Anderson and Co. Clarke: Nothing needs to be said. Hughes: His scores so far in the first-class matches on tour (excluding for Australia A) are 76*, 50, 19*, 86, 81*, 0, 1, 1. Average 62.8 even with those three low scores in the last three digs. A couple of those half-centuries were achieved at number 3, the toughest spot. In fact, I think he has earned that spot ahead of Khawaja. His 81* in the First Test showed grit and concentration, not just the slashing strokeplay we already know him for. Smith: Tour batting average 46.0. Tour bowling figures (he has only bowled in the second test) 4 for 83; bowling average 20.75, better than Warnie's career average (or almost anyone's career average for that matter). HIs three wickets in the 1st innings brought Australia right back into the match at that time. He bowled better than the guy who was picked as the specialist spinner. Bottom line: The Aussies are not having such a bad tour. They got well on top in both the lead-up matches and almost pulled off the First Test. They were in the Second Test until 5 of the top 6 bats all had a bad day simultaneously. Hang in there and support our boys.

Best XI (I know they're not all available but this is the best 20 man squad - Chris Rogers - not really up to it but we're lacking good openers atm - David Warner - a fruitloop, really needs serious work re. attitude and his issues with grog, but he's better than Watson and we need a win, I'd give him another chance, but put him on warning - step out of line again and you're gone for at least 18 months - Usman Khwaja - deserves another chance - Michael Clarke - should be batting at 4 - Phil Hughes - should be batting at 5 or even 6 - George Bailey - would be a good replacement vc for Warson/Haddin and would help stiffen up the batting - Matthew Wade - not as good a keeper as Paine or Hartley, but a better batsman - Trent Copeland - best option with Pattinson out - Mitchell Starc - best we've had so far in the series - Ryan Harris - has a fairly limited future due to his durability issues, but we need him now - Fawad Ahmed - Agar's best contribution thus far has been with the bat, he's one for the future definitely - but at the moment Ahmed's the better spinner In the squad - the three best allrounders - Moises Henriques, Glenn Maxwell and James Faulkner; I haven't got an all rounder in the XI (going back to the pre-2005 Flintoff and therefore all rounder mania), but these three are all good lads with solid futures - one of them would replace one of the batsmen or Harris in my team, you could take two if the batting wasn't so poor atm (I'd pick Maxwell and Henriques) three extra bowlers - Ashton Agar, Patrick Cummins and Josh Hazlewood; go for youth! and three batsmen/batting keeper - Brad Haddin, Joe Burns and Adam Voges; a mix of youth (Burns) and experience (Voges and Haddin)

There's a pretty simple rule which really need to be followed. Every player should either be good enough or showing potential to one day be good enough. Therefore I would eliminate all mature players not up to it - Rogers, Katich, Watson, Cowan, Haddin so I am left with Hughes Warner Khawaja Clarke Doolan Smith Wade Agar Siddle Starc Harris/Bird Would tell Warner, Hughes & Smith they are on the brink of a long layoff. As it stands they have to play only because there is no-one else. George Bailey might be worth consideration but he really need some FC runs.

Insane, Maddiinson has not done anything in shield consistently. How you can overlook Joe Burns is beyond belief.

What about Australia's best young cricketer, Joe Burns???? He's even playing in England right at this very minute.

Best side for the next test: Silk: gun young opener, gets heaps of runs even on difficult pitches and in pressure situations like the Shield final, also the best fielder we've produced since Ricky Ponting. Kahwaja: Nervy first inningsat Lords but showed some grit in the second, reportedly a bit slack in the field but we must be able to hide him somewhere. Voges: Solid technique, loads of experience and able to graft runs when needed or Maddison if we've totally given up and we're blooding kids for the future. Clarke: Best bat in Australia when fit (If unfit I'd play Bailey, great leader and able to bring a team together. Hughes: I'm a bit iffy about this one, but he did show a bit when dropped down the order in the first test. Definitely not an opener or number three. Faulkner: Best alrounder in the country by a mile!! Paine: Best keeper in the country and always earmarked as a future Australian Captain before his injury. Siddle: Who'd leave out a bowler that gives his heart and soul for the team and would bowl all day and half the night if his Captain asked him to Bird: Best Shield bowler two years in a row. Outstanding test debut, doesn't leak runs and should be suited to English conditions. Harris: Terrific fast bowler when fit, and bowls well in al conditions, also doesn't leak runs ans builds pressure. Ahmed: Best spinner in the country! Lets face it, he's the only spinner in the country that actually gives the ball a real rip and would make the English think twice about producing dust bowl test wickets. Smith: 12th man for his terrific fielding.

plus his back yard cricket matches would have been just a little more skilled growing up than anyone elses.

but steve had balls. and a spine. and was a technically solid player already. i dont think you can say all that about any of the australian players at the moment.

Martin, I am a bit concerned that you don't have enough Tasmanian players in your side. They have been be best team at shield level for the last few years and more deserve to be selected. Here is my team Rogers Cosgrove Katich Doolan Clarke Bailey Faulkner Paine Siddle Bird Harris Spinners aren't taking wickets so get rid of them. Katich can provide a bit of variety

Silk Maddinson Khawaja Cosgrove Clarke Smith Neville Agar Siddle Harris Bird Start again with the batting. Blood some young blokes - sink or swim theory.