Hird denies AFL plea deal allegation

Regardless of the outcome the AFL may have left it too late for Essendon to stripped of points. I don't know if this was deliberate or it just happened that way. I think it would be better for Essendon if it all gets done this season and not have it drag into next year. If it drags on to next year any punishment could have longer lasting effects.

What motive could the club have for losing its paperwork if we accept your inference that it was done deliberately? Surely not that it would be damning. Who would keep records of illegal activity? I've asked this same question numerous times and not had an answer. In any case ASADA has has the testimony of the players and unless the players were dumb enough to allow themselves to be injected with unknown substances then its already known what they received.

I think it was all a bit more sophisticated than a dusty grey filing cabinet with random scraps of paper, but reading reports from Dank (credibility dubious) there was an online recording system and records were kept. Doesn't say who kept these records or had access to the database. Phil - if I lose my invoices does that mean I don't have to pay tax?

They do know what they their former contracted sports scientists states the players were given. Where has the club stated categorically that it doesn't know what it's players were given?

West Coast is one of the most financially successful clubs in the AFL, both in terms of revenue and profit. In May 2011, the club's total revenue for the previous season was reported as $45.6 million, equal first with Collingwood. The club's football department spending over the 2011 season was reported as $18.6 million, second to Collingwood. They are up with supporters also as they are the most supported team in WA, population 2.3 million. Look West to see where the power lies! Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Coast_Eagles

So long as there is any possibility that Essendon players have played this season with the benefit (however marginal) of performance enhancing drugs (irrespective of whether the players knew, the coaches knew, the club knew, or the club cleaner knew), it is extremely unlikely that the AFL will let Essendon play in the finals. The AFL Finals Series relies on a level playing ground amongst all the teams. And I suspect, the players in all the other clubs (no matter how sympathetic they may be to the plight of the Essendon Football Club in general) would agree that any player who has had a performance enhancing drug should not be permitted to play finals against them. Contrary to every Essendon apologist who has written in these pages, it is not the lack of proof by ASADA and the AFL that is the determining factor; it is Essendon's own admission "we don't know what our players were given" that means Essendon should not play finals. Protestations of natural justice and presumption of innocence miss the mark: the legitimacy of the finals series to determine the best team in the competition for 2013 depends on the integrity of the level playing field. Essendon, by their own admission, cannot guarantee that for their team, and therefore should not be allowed to play.

So if they get off lightly it will be due to a 'legal technicality?' What about the disrepute EFC has brought to the game? Should it not pay a price for that? Ben Cousins paid the price for far less a crime - Dons need to take their medicine instead of trying to hide behind a bunch of QC's and PR firms.

Not quite. EFC players signed paperwork saying they were happy to take the drugs. EFS has paperwork saying they bought the drugs. EFC lost the paperwork about who took what drugs. Reality according to Phil Maguire "Nahh nahh nahh you can prove who took what, we're all innocent". The is Doping 201 - Losing The Paperwork

Re your last sentence Phil: If the EFC doesn't know with concrete certainty that it's players did not receive WADA-banned substances, then they have prima facie been negligent.

Essendon is not the WAFL. Nor is Essendon Fitzroy. Essendon is the AFL's biggest drawcard alongside Collingwood and an AFL competition without them would not be the competition it is now. If it lost Essendon it would cause a crisis. It could lose any interstate club without much of a problem. The Bombers are a different kettle of fish. Their loss would set the league back years.

I agree. I can only think of it in WA terms when the eagles were formed. Effectively the wafl was destroyed as a mass watched competition. People felt sad at the time diehards still do but most of the football public migrated to the AFL and gave their WAFL clubs barely any thought since. As far as the general public goes most just don't care about the WAFL and the clubs they used to follow. It's Eagles or dockers. Fitzroy gone not forgotten but never thought of these days, fondly remembered but the lions are the Brisbane lions now. If Essendon disappeared there would be sadness outcries but 5 years later the world would have moved on. That would go for any club really. However that's getting a bit hysterical I can't see Essendon been kicked out of the comp. but I can see them getting mid tier club draws etc. losing big event games etc.

Nice try Liam but we've been through all of that multiple times. The email between Robinson and Hooper is new information. Re your first paragraph. If ASADA has evidence that Essendon players have been administered banned substances, charge them. If they don't know which players were injected with banned substances, then it follows that they cannot know if any were. It's that simple!

It's a fair point Gazzaw. Just as no player is bigger than his club, no club is bigger than the AFL? For example, if Carlton folded in the early 2000s, how many fans from the (now) other 17 clubs would really care so much today that it caused them to stop following the AFL? My guess: 0.0001% Equally, in the incredibly unlikely event Essendon ceases to exist over this supplements saga, do you really think the AFL would suffer any serious long-term ramifications? It would take a short term hit, of course, but in 5-10 years the league would recover and go on without too much inconvenience.

The same paper has said that ASADA has evidence EFC players HAVE BEEN administered substances that are on the WADA banned list. Yet most deluded EFC fans choose to ignore that. You can't have it both ways. Of course James Hird is going to go on record as saying he asked for everything to be legit. Would you really expect him to come out and say, "Damn, you got me!" There are countless significant aspects about this saga that Essendon people are ignoring. Who signed off on Dank's contract and who were references sought from, if any? Why did Doc Reid's letter of concern not make it to the board? Why did Doc Reid not follow up and ensure his voice was heard? Why did Doc Reid have concerns in the first place? Why were Hird and Reid not present when the players asked for greater clarification on the juice they were being injected with? Why was Dean Robinson stood down? Why is Ziggy Switkowski now being discredited by Essendon folk, for a report their own club commissioned? Why is James Hird chasing every legal loophole he can, and no longer parroting on that "when the truth comes out the club will be in a very good position"? Why are so many Essendon fans seemingly unconcerned by numerous claims players were injected by substances that cannot be identified? Why does anyone still listen to Mark McVeigh, who began with the laughable claims he was only injected with vitamin C? Why is Hird's legal team ignoring the National Anti-Doping (NAD) Scheme which states ASADA's CEO is free to share information "to a sporting administration body in connection with ASADA’s investigation"? Why are no Essendon members aghast at claims WADA banned substances have been invoiced to their club? Why are no Essendon fans concerned at claims PEDs have been given to their players? Why won't Stephen Dank speak to the authorities? Where is this mysterious AOD9604 is approved letter? These are significant but will be ignored by the usual suspects. :)

If Dank is a conman, what is James Hird? Looks to me like he has the entire Essendon fan-base conned into thinking he is incapable of error, let alone deceit. As for duplicity, Hird has said he should take full responsibility, but has watched Robinson get stood down immediately after the "self-reporting" was done, then seen Robson walk on the grounds that if he didn't know he should have, and carried on when Evans departed under immense pressure. Meanwhile, Hird has done nothing to accept his responsibility and everything to put himself before the club. Hird appears quite adept at duplicity.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course. But not many people at Essendon were aware of the appointment of Danks or the specifics of the program (until it was too late). Dr Reid wrote of his concerns but it wasn't succinctly communicated to the board or followed up. Will Dank get "caught" - well, depends if there's anything to catch him for, but his records would be interesting reading. Essendon maintain they've broken no laws, injected nothing illegal etc etc ... If this is the case then he's got nothing to worry about.

"conmen" not conman.

"How come no one saw through Dank’s motives and psychology?" You've got the hindsight machine set to high. Dank is not a stupid individual and like most conman is charming and able to deceive for a period of time. Eventually they get caught out and as we have seen with the media dance he has done since Feb 2013 Dank appears quite adept at duplicity.

This is significant but will be ignored by the usual suspects.

hird in shock-story-denial-repeat