Dear Davo Smithy, I for one welcomed recent news that a thorough review of the second tiers is currently in progress. Still, obvious questions do arise.
Can our sport actually sustain three national comps? Will the reorganisation negatively impact existing clubs and leagues?
And is the goal of the secondary tiers to service the NRL clubs, the sport or both?
To be perfectly blunt, another national competition would become a massive money pit. Despite claims that more fans would attend NRL games if three grades were playing, I suspect that this is partly a nostalgic myth.
Yes, there would be a minority that would sit through six hours of football, but these handfuls of hardcore fans would come nowhere near offsetting the travel and accommodation costs associated with a new national competition.
A national reserve grade comp would also have major ramifications for the existing NSW and Queensland state competition clubs, which would effectively be relegated to an even lower tier.
I do not believe that we can afford to marginalise these organisations any further.
I would argue that there are five main functions a secondary tier should be fulfilling:
1) Identifying and developing new talent
2) Acting as a continuing pathway for players outside the NRL and Holden Cup
3) Creating a complete grassroots to professional feeder pyramid for every NRL club
4) Ensuring the survival of lower heritage clubs
5) Taking the NRL/rugby league branding to markets not directly serviced by NRL clubs by establishing direct connections between the professional competition and the minor leagues in various Australian states, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea and the Pacific Islands.
The first step would be increasing the age limit of the youth competition to Under 23s. This would allow the youngest players to learn from players with more experience which will improve overall quality.
The youth competition would still continue to mirror the main league but in certain cases clubs would have similar themed nicknames (official or unofficial) that emphasis the youth aspect – Colts, Cubs, Eaglets etc.
Meanwhile, the semi-pro state competitions would be comprised of any open age players who do not find a place in the fully professional leagues. NRL clubs would form direct feeder relationships with two clubs each across both metro and regional NSW and Queensland.
Each state and national league would effectively become a separate conference in a second tier structure.
In August and September these leagues would play their individual grand finals. After a week’s break the winner of those competitions would then be seeded into a Challenge Cup style knockout tournament.
Rounds 1 and 2 would focus on whittling down the emerging state teams (4 into 1) and the pacific teams (4 into 1). In Round 3, the NSW and Queensland winners would enter the final four.
On NRL grand final day, the second tier grand final would be played in the late afternoon slot. With a potentially wider geographic representation involved, this would benefit the overall TV ratings.
Focusing firstly on NSW, the ultimate goal should be to divide the state into zones with approximately 400,000 populations. This would require an expansion to a 20 team competition.
In order to reduce overall costs, teams would play their own division twice and the rest of the competition once. This would result in a 22 round competition which fits in with the knockout finals time table.
The regions proposed would be:
Country North Division
Far North (Coffs Harbour to the Queensland border) – affiliated with Gold Coast Titans
Mid North (Great Lake to Armidale) – affiliated with Newcastle Knights
Hunter Valley (Scone to Wyee) – affiliated with Newcastle Knights
Central Coast (Budgewoi to Woy Woy) – affiliated with Central Coast Bears
Country South Division
Riverina (Hay to Tumut) – affiliated with Melbourne Storm and Canberra Raiders
Eden-Monaro (Canberra to the Vic border) – affiliated with Canberra Raiders
Illawarra (Ulladulla to Wollongong) – affiliated with St George Illawarra Dragons
Central West (Cowra to Dunedoo) – affiliated with Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
City North Division
North Sydney (Manly to Hornsby) – affiliated with Manly Warringah Sea Eagles
North Shore and Ryde (Balmain to Ryde) – affiliated with Wests Tigers
Canterbury-Bankstown (Earlwood to Auburn) – affiliated with Canterbury Bankstown Bulldogs
Parramatta (Silverwater to Prospect) – affiliated with Parramatta Eels
City South Division
Sutherland Shire (Cronulla to Georges River) – affiliated with Cronulla Sutherland Sharks
St George District (Rockdale to Panania) – affiliated with St George Illawarra Dragons
Eastern Suburbs (Botany to City) – affiliated with Sydney Roosters
Inner City (City to Marrickville) – affiliated with South Sydney Rabbitohs
City West Division
North West (Pennant Hills to Blacktown) – affiliated with Penrith Panthers
Penrith (Rooty Hill to Katoomba) – affiliated with Penrith Panthers
South West (Green Valley to Guilford) – affiliated with Parramatta Eels
Western Suburbs (Liverpool to Camden) – affiliated with Wests Tigers
Existing clubs with heritage branding will remain or return (Newtown Jets, Balmain Tigers, St George Dragons, Illawarra Steelers, Cumberland etc).
New sides would have names that recognise their local areas and mascots that recognise their NRL affiliates.
NSW clubs with only one feeder side in the NSW Cup and out-of-state teams such as the Warriors, Storm, West Coast Pirates, Wellington Orcas and the Queensland NRL sides would form affiliations with the Queensland Cup sides.
New talent unearthed. More players kept in the game. Teams develop grassroots. Heritage survives. Regional areas revived.
troy
Guest
a lot a people dont bother with the first game because the gap between the two games is to great, 40 to 50 minutes of just hanging around....im sure it would be different if the games turn around time was a 10 minutes. i have said it many times....watching NRL teams warm up is not entertainment.
Zee
Roar Guru
Great Article Mate -- We need to change the Holden cup to U23s we are losing so much lads because clubs let them go when they reach 21. Its ridicolous, Just look @ souths for example the number of brilliant youth prospects we've let go when they reach 21 is horrid.
Gregory
Guest
I agree with this Nsw cup and qld cup proposal. I like that every regional centre in these states would have a club linked to an NRL club. If the NRL just have a reserve grade that copies the NRL clubs a third time it will kill the state comps.
john badseed
Guest
Agree completely Roger. Instead of continual bleats from Qlders about dismantling established Sydney clubs to satisfy their expansionista plot to take over the league world, simply strengthen the existing second tier competition. Foundation clubs would not become extinct but can continue as feeder teams for NRL clubs both in NSW and Qld. What happens when the mining boom finishes in central Qld or WA and we have axed Manly or the Dragons? We'll be left with a team playing out of the same ghost towns that were created during the last mining collapse. And once they've finished destroying the reef, tourism will leave N. Qld with it's artificial population growth of Pommy backpackers. Major cities on the east coast need major league teams not regional centres. The second tier will allow country folk to join in with metropolitan centres and feel a part of the NRL umbrella. No more artificial teams sucking money from established clubs. More money to develop junior leagues.
Roger
Guest
Exactly, areas's like Rockhampton, Mackay, Cairns, SunshineCoast, Redcliffe, Ipswich need rugby league teams to support. It's obviously not the NRL but i can assure you the 1500 or so that turn out most games really enjoy having a semi professional sporting club to support. 13000 last year for the GF and 7000 this year in Ipswich between a Team from Brisbane and North Qld shows there's a genuine interest. I can't speak for the NSW cup but sides like the Bears and the Jets get good support and with sides like the dogs playing out of Belmore and maybe one day the Bunnies out of Redfurn, the comp has a bit of nostalgia to it. And 5000 to the prelim finals and Leichardt shows there's a bit of interest there too. If it was up to me I'd love to see the NSW Cup final moved to Henson Park and the QCUP to Dolphin Oval and have them back to back (QCUP 2pm/NSWCUP 4pm) the weekend of the Prelim Finals (have the NRL games fri/sat night). Both grounds hold around 10 000 and the sight of 10 k on the hill at both of those games for a day of grand final footy is pretty bloody appealing. Then have the winners play each other at ANZ the week after pre NRL GF.
Johnno
Guest
They should have a champions league style NSW/QLD cup national championship. Closed conferences, top 5 from each qualify for 4-week 10 team semi-final series. Winner is top 2 on GF day. And plan it, 1st VS 5th, 2 V 4, 3 V 3, from each conference. Then on GF day if top 2 are NSW cup/ or both QLD cup, so be it, but it's a national championship. NSQ/QLD cup silverware goes to minor premiers of each comp, then national title goes to winner of finals series. So 2 sets of silverware per year, kinda like in England FA Cup, and Premiership , 2 titles.
code 13
Roar Guru
One of the problems with the existing NSW cup format is that for the majority of the season it is relegated to the periphery below Under 20s. If some of the games were scheduled before NRL matches and the competition was promoted as a genuine second tier competition then the brand awareness of those unique clubs will grow. At the moment the make up of the comp is ramshackle at best. We're not targeting future growth areas and creating even talent pools for the clubs. Under this proposal every single NSW market is targeted and connected to an NRL team. The base grows and the top grows.
code 13
Roar Guru
Agree 100% and this is what this system is working towards.
code 13
Roar Guru
I agree that this comp isn't going to be what gets hundreds of thousands through the game. But it will engage second tier clubs with unique fan bases - the QRL teams, former NSW club heritage teams, regional NSW teams - and give them a direct link to the NRL. And yes in order to exist its going to require subsidies from the NRL but let's face it - even the fully professional clubs need that. If we don't invest in the grassroots, the game is going to stagnate and this is all about strengthening the bottom of the pyramid.
john badseed
Guest
In NSW, the only state where foundation clubs have been either forced to merge or forced out of the NRL competition to accommodate expansion, teams such as Newtown, Balmain, Norths, Wests and Illawarra are able to keep their identities in the NSW Cup. Each of these teams, plus Winsor, Wenty, Auckland and this years premiers Cronulla, act as direct feeder teams to the NRL clubs. In Newtowns case, it is the NRL Premiers Sydney City. I believe the Qld Cup has a similar role. Why is it necessary to force the extinction of these Clubs with their generations of fans to satisfy 'Expansionists'? Young (U/20s) players, if good enough have the opportunity to come through the NSW Cup system, (Tom Symonds, Daniel Mortimer, Liam Foran spring to mind), where they can go head to head with veterans and the cream of the clubs rising stars. It is a good system that is working well. For expansionistas a third tier Comp for Victoria, WA, Romania, et al, could be established whereby once an area has sufficient juniors and facilities established, that area can apply to be considered for the NRL. There is already a form of national comp where each State competes. Of its value I am unsure. I believe it's standard hovers around the level of CRL.
SuperEel22
Roar Guru
I have repeatedly said we need to go back to the old system U23's Jersey Flegg, Reserve Grade, First Grade. U23's allow the young guys to play against players who have a greater range in age and size than the 20's has currently. Reserve Grade is essentially the NSW Cup, allowing players outside the 23's, talented 23's and injured first graders to play against each other. It provides a pathway for the injured to return, 23's to test themselves against people who are larger and more experienced than them and the older players to show their wears on a bigger stage than they do currently. That old system worked for 100 years. The NRL seem to have the belief that if it ain't broke we'll fix it until it is broke.
code 13
Roar Guru
Can you imagine what would happen to NRL clubs if you forced them only to use players Under 20? They'd suffer a major decline in support and that would put them on shaky financial ground - so why would you want to inflict that on even smaller and more fragile clubs in the QLD & NSW cups? Those clubs have important heritage value and supporter groups. We shouldn't be killing off the grassroots just to fatten the big clubs.
code 13
Roar Guru
Relegating the NSW & QLD cups even lower is going to have a detrimental effect on existing rugby league clubs. These are clubs already struggling for an audience with second string players and you're forcing them down to using third string players! Valuable clubs are likely to die if that happens. Surely the game has learned by now that without the existing clubs and their fans, there is no rugby league. Regarding Holden Cup, I do believe that the benefit of having 20-22 year old who have either developed longer in the Youth Comp or had some brief NRL experience will improve the defensive aspects of that competition. Regarding injuries to 17 year olds, before the Holden Cup the 17 year olds weren't getting smashed by 22 year olds. They were getting smashed by blokes in their late 20s & 30s. That was what driving kids out of the game hence the development of Holden Cup. The 17-22 age range is enough so that the kids won't be smashed but that they also benefit from wider experience. And yes if you're a 22 year old in that competition you're effectively a senior and will benefit from that leadership role.
code 13
Roar Guru
Johnno, yes. The NSW & QLD cups fulfill a vital step in the rugby league pyramid.
code 13
Roar Guru
I'm actually in agreement about having 18-22 year olds playing in the Holden Cup. I believe that's the right mix in order to improve the overall quality of that competition. Regarding NSW Cup I do agree that it's of better quality but I disagree that things should be left exactly as they are. The cup has minimal profile for the majority of the season. You're right there is a market for the comp but to do that it needs to be a mixture of established NRL brands, other former heritage brands and clubs that broaden the scope of the competition. Under what I'm suggesting you would still be able to go to a suburban ground and see NSW Cup games. There are only 8 NRL games per week and under this system there would 10 NSW Cup games and 8 QLD Cup games a week. Because of scheduling it's probably impractical to schedule reserves matches on Friday & Monday nights so that means you would likely see 5 games before NRL matches and 13 at other venues.
Mr snrub
Guest
I agree with that 100% it's such an easy fix I don't know why the nrl did not come up with that in the first place!?! Could you imagine if foxtel could televise them as well? Blood some new commentary talent and being able to see stars returning from injury carving it up in reserve grade be for they get back. I would love that. We may be able to develop a few junior refs if we took our lower grades seriously
Glenn Innes
Guest
The NSW cup and QLD cup are so different - the QLD cup is a kind of hybrid beast that combines what is left of the old Brisbane Rugby League with a statewide regional comp, whilst the NSW cup is really just the old metro cup subdistritcs comp. Really I don't think any of this matters much for two reasons.Firstly in this day and age people are only interested in elite sport no second tier comp is ever going to interest the masses, and whatever format they choose will always require subsidies indirectlly paid via NRL TV revenue to remain viable. Secondly the talent identification process at NRL level is so comprehinsive these days that with the odd exception kids who are likely to make NRL grade are signed up long before senior football comes around.Most of these blokes playing in the twenties will never play NRL the ones who are NRL standard are already part of the first grade squad - I remember Wayne Bennett used to bang on about this back when he was still at The Bronco's and they were opposed to the under 20's concept.
Pomoz
Roar Rookie
Cost is obviously an issue, but why not switch the formats? Make u20's a State based cup and reserve grade a national competition. That way, there are two tiers at national level for players to develop in and the u20's still play in a high standard state system. To lower cost further, play all three games at the first grade ground on game day. This would give better utilisation of stadium facilities and staff, and a better package for fans. It would also give Fox TV more content without any extra effort. The cameras have to be at the ground for first grade and they can then film all three grades. I have no idea why it was decided to go to a state cup and have teams playing at Newtown and Windsor. Crazy waste of money.
Johnno
Guest
SG Ball and Harold Matthews, there under 16 and under 18 elite club comps, the NRL has all bases covered for elite age comps unlike Australian rugby. NSW/QLD cup is a much better 3rd-Tier than shute shield rugby, in standard and proffessionalism.
Daniel Szabo
Roar Guru
Rugby league in this country needs a proper reserve grade competition with the same structure as the NRL. The NSW and QLD cups should be relegated to the third tier, with the new NRG (national reserve grade) to be the second tier. U20s should stay as it is. Changing it to U23s will not improve the quality of defence, nor will it make the actual game any less "touch football like". If anything, keeping the 21, 22 and 23 year olds playing with the 17, 18 and 19 year olds will have a negative impact on their development as NRL quality footballers. There is no way to change the touch-footy like nature of U20s. That is simply the sort of footy that you get when you put the best 16-20 year olds up against each other - you get a bunch of players who can attack like anything, some players who can defend well individually, but not as a unit, and players who can't defend at all. Changing it to U23s might help alleviate this particular problem, but it would lead to all sorts of other problems like injuries to 16 and 17 year olds who aren't ready to be playing against men, but are still too good for the SG Ball competition. On the other side of the spectrum, what does 22 year old front rower who's not quite ready for first grade gain out of playing against 16-18 year olds? Absolutely nothing! Keep the 16-20 year olds playing in the U20s, and keep the 21-23 year olds playing with the men in reserve grade (except we need a better reserve grade competition than the NSW Cup).