Just after another disappointing 2013 Six Nations tournament for Les Bleus, Philippe Saint-Andre and his senior coaching staff invited a dozen of journalists to what they call ‘une table ronde’.
On this day, the 18th of March 2013, PSA spoke at length about the Six Nations itself, the disappointing performances of his team, why French rugby had been stagnating or even struggling in recent times.
Why bring that up now, six months after the interview?
Well it’s again this time of the year when we rugby fans don’t call ourselves English, Australian, kiwi, French, Irish, Italian, South African, Samoan anymore.
We have suddenly become “northerners’ and ‘southerners”!
Yep that’s right! The Kiwis with the Aussies and saffas, the frogs, poms, paddies, jocks and taffies together too.
Forget the wars, Six Nations rivalries and fights, kiwi and Aussie jokes; we are now and for the next few weeks two big, albeit dysfunctional, families.
I actually find it funny, and a bit odd, to be part of these ‘temporary allegiances’ but hey, it’s only rugby!
So yes, it is indeed a very timely opportunity to give PSA, a northerner, a voice like his southern hemisphere counterparts have on our shores all year round.
As it was a very long article, I decided to only focus on what matters most at this time of the year, i.e. some of the reasons according to PSA (‘some’ is important as there are obviously many more reasons ) which may help explain why France is behind the southern hemisphere.
Personally I found it interesting as I didn’t read it as a diatribe against the south or a list of excuses but rather a snapshot of what’s happening, and especially what’s wrong, in French rugby.
I should also mention that the interview was given before an important meeting with the FFR (and PSA clearly wanted to get media/public support before the start of the negotiations.)
Here we go.
“In France, an international player can play 43 games/season but is only at national team’s disposal for 87 days. All Blacks internationals usually play a maximum of 26 games and spend 146 days together as a squad. English internationals play 26 games and spend 119 days with the national coach. In Oz, its 26 matches/145 days.”
“At the highest level, rugby is a sport where players have to be physically fresh and extremely hungry. For example, the fact our guys didn’t play with their clubs the week before the England’s game was extremely beneficial to the troops.
We must find a way to preserve our internationals as it’s also a matter of health.”
PSA’s demands are as follows.
“We need a real break at the end of the domestic season so that our internationals can have a proper rest then start again their physical training.”
“We (the French national team) should also spend at least 13 days as a squad before every major competition and be able to name a 33-man squad.
“We have to find some sort of financial agreement with the clubs for that to work as clubs shouldn’t feel tricked/losers.”
Then Yannick Bru (French forwards coach) to add: “With only 23 players available at national training camps, it’s impossible for me to organise some proper 8 vs 8 scrummaging sessions. Same with line-outs.”
“We have to get some guys from Massy (club from Paris’ suburbs that play semi-pro rugby a few divisions below top 14)! The other international coaches laugh at us when they hear that. “
So then, it’s actually the whole French rugby system which needs to change.
“Let’s have a look at three specific positions and see the % of foreign players at Top 14 level. 88% of tight-head props who are in the starting line-ups are foreigners.”
“The French represent only 12% of fly-halves and 14% of wings. We aren’t having a go at the clubs but there is definitely something wrong with the system in place.
“The national team that gets an audience of 15 million for a Six Nations’ game should be the priority of our rugby.”
Ben.S
Roar Guru
1999 and 2011 are just really poor examples. In 2011 there was basically an implosion, and 1999 wasn't much better. In both tournaments they reached the final against all odds basically. France lost in the 2003 semi final, but to that point they had been very good. They looked well drilled and prepared - exactly the opposite of 1999 and 2011.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
Promotion d'honneur which would be the 5-6th level (only 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th series are below). Most of my mates were in 3rd div or 2div and mentality was the same. Even when I trained as a youngster it was very much about 'dominating up front'. which is fine but we didn't see the ball much in the backs.
Bakkies
Guest
What level did you play adult Rugby at? That may determine the results oriented focus.
Bakkies
Guest
Nothing unusual about French clubs getting funding from their councils. Some play in municipal stadiums so they don't have to finance stadium refurbishment. For what the councils fund they get a return in to the local economy from match days, visitors on weekends. The clubs are a big deal to the local communities.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Bugger. I hoped for over weening arrogance. Instead, as usual, I got reasoned commentary. Good luck tonight - just not too much. Cheesy grin.
Parisien
Guest
Scotland was last in the last 6N. France beat them in the play-off for the wooden spoon. France didn't have a good tournament or good year.
Parisien
Guest
1999 they were finalists after a thrilling defeat of NZ in the semi final. In 2011 they lost the final by one point to NZ. They may not have played brilliant rugby in every single game to get there, but the point is that the overall performance results after more preparation time together were good. I don't know of any team that has had a perfect WRC where every game was strong. Looking at France in the other WRCs: in 1987, they were finalists after beating Australia in the semi. 1991 they had a disappointing loss against England in the animosity filled QF. 1995 they perhaps played their best WRC to lose by Benazzi's fingertips in the rain against SA in the semi. In 2003 they played good rugby until their semi loss where they played very poorly in the rain.
chris
Guest
Don't know how credible it is, but read recently that Toulon receives 3m euros a year from their local council. The same article had their total revenue at around 20m. If this claim is true, that means the french tax-payer is basically paying for four and half Habanas to join Toulon.
chris
Guest
PSA did massage all the stats a tad “In France, an international player CAN play 43 games/season..." vs "All Blacks internationals USUALLY play a maximum of 26 games" Comparing a (theoretical) maximum to an (actual) average is always going to exaggerate the difference. Not saying he doesn't have a point, but by overegging it he undermines his credibility.
Ben.S
Roar Guru
It's only France really. From a previous conversation with Biltong the Aviva Premiership clubs recruited approximately 35+ English players from the league below, the Championship, and 5 (I think?) SH players, with those players being fringe players like Don Armand. The amount of big names in the Top 14, by comparison, is huge. Their recruitment drive is relentless. There also seems to be an issue, IMHO, with young French talent being taken on by big clubs, not getting game time and just sitting there on the sidelines, as opposed to moving to a lesser club to get game time. As an aside, Joe Schmidt is already talking about how fatigued Jon Secton is, so I have a sneaking suspicion that although some more Irish/Welsh players might head over to France that eventually the player drain will stop because of the physical demands. Jon Secton has already played 13 games in 12 weeks after the Lions tour. He's got months of rugby ahead of him. Anyway, just a thought. Enjoy the game today!
Ben.S
Roar Guru
I do think they have better talent than their results indicate, yes. I think that's a fair appraisal.
Ben.S
Roar Guru
Touche, sir. Really not looking forward to the game today. Think Australia will win... (sad face)
Saigondave
Guest
Basically in NZ we have - very small local clubs playing in towns and cities throughout the land, - provincial level (used to be true rep sides with players from clubs in that catchment), - the 5 Super franchises, and - The New Zealand national side. Our focus is top to bottom, rather than bottom to top as in the NH. Our best performing team and our biggest brand is the national side, the All Blacks. The focus has to be this way for a nation of 4 million, even if grass roots (club) rugby suffers. We understand NH rivalries, etc but we just don't think it's the best system for those nations or for rugby overall.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
That's a good post old bugger! To be fair with PSA, he is not the first one to complain vehemently about that. All coaches of the last 3 decades have been saying the same "the top 14 is too long, our players play too many games, we need to have them more often blabla". What has changed in recent times is the success of top 14 and subsequent arrival of top players. Before, the foreigners we had (Georgians, Romanians etc) were not often in top teams and/or in starting line ups. Now with all the kiwis and saffas playing there most French don't have game time. Plus young French players are relatively more expensive than their Fijian, Samoan, saffa colleagues so its understandable that clubs prefer to invest in a cheaper and better foreigner.
nickoldschool
Roar Guru
But Tane would you say Alice Springs is in the north (or south) of Oz? Same with welly? Perso I say 'in the middle".
Old Bugger
Guest
Lion down under
Guest
All excellent points NOS. Very true. I also get the feeling that Aussies and New Zealanders, with the possible exception of Queenslanders to a certain extent, just don't understand the huge club and regional rivalries in British, French and Irish rugby. It's a completely different mindset. Wales tried to replicate a SH regional system and it's been a disaster, neither fish nor fowl. The National Team is doing relatively well *despite* how poor the regions have been. Promotion and relegation also make every game mean more so players are less likely to be rested for the National Team or played out of position for the national coach to experiment.
Lion down under
Guest
I'd love for Wales to perform terribly in two World Cups and get to both Finals. Just saying.
jeznez
Roar Guru
Nice one KP. More teams! :D
kingplaymaker
Guest
Very good article: I think probably the last point is the main one. Too many imports means that despite having so many well-funded and supported teams they can't capitalise on large playing numbers. I imports are fine to raise a league to competitiveness but once it is competitive they become redundant and an obstacle to local talent getting to play. If the imports must be kept the only solution is more teams to create enough places for locals, which of course is perfectly possible in France with the incredible popularity of rugby and large crowds even for second division matches.