Doolan and Coulter-Nile must play at Sydney

Good question Ronan because it is now you're getting to the root of the problem. Dropping a player is discretionary and depends much upon the selection process and perspectives in place. There are no fixed rules and in fact the parameters for deciding upon such action are broad and are always dependent upon the perspective of those decision makers, who are themselves acting upon a range of pressures and influences that taint the process. Thus it has always been so otherwise how does Geoff Marsh retain his test post averaging 33, while Bevan and Hodge average over 50 and only get one shot at it. How does Steve Waugh averaging 36 after 49 tests avoid being dropped once while Hughes averaging a few runs less over the same period is dropped four times. How does Khawaja get dropped three times playing only 9 tests while Cowan who averages less than Hughes gets a free ride for 18 tests untouched. In my mind the answer is simple. If you have an older player over the 30 mark with low first class averages and you give them a chance playing tests, you should be asking what is your aim, because you know its most unlikely that you are going to get better than about a 35 run average at test level.. Logical. There is a slight chance they may improve, but unlikely based on their history. At best you'll hit a 'purple' patch that may last a few tests, but its most likely that will balance out with their normal average or less. Therefore if you select them it should only be for a brief interim period until a better player is ready, say three tests maximum to see if, with their broad experience, they can handle that level. Guys of that age have already reached near their peak. If the player is in the early to mid 20s, the chances are that their first class averages are going to fluctuate widely but over time increase. Such is the learning process that weaknesses are ALWAYS being tagged and exploited and then worked on to overcome. Very few players at that age dont go through that process and if you look at test players averages over the years you'll see that pattern. Root is going through that right now for England. Smith is still struggling with it with an average not much better than Hughes after 32 tests. But you know that chances are they are constantly improving and by the time they are 30 they will have virtually become the player they are destined to be. That's why I see Doolan as a fringe player because he's 28 with a sub 38 first class average. He's getting close to his optimum and if improvements isnt made soon he could be merely another Cowan. But how many times would I drop a batsmen. As many times as it takes and dependent upon their first class performances. I've said before there is no magic abilities that transform a first class player to a test player. Its just an increase in standard, a process these players have been through all their cricketing life. Test players generally attain test batting levels a little below their first class levels. Sometimes like Clarke its above. Watson is one of the rare ones who's played a huge number of tests but his test batting average is almost 10 runs shy of his first class average but I think thats because of injury and confidence. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hughes, through his consistent 40+ first class average up to 25 years is a test player in the making. Much of his problem is that he's been found out in two areas and with the heavy media thrashing he's had, he's lost confidence in his ability. He's seemingly addressed one of his issues and has seemed in the process of addressing the other. He's a batsman in development with years of development left. That sort of player you persist with and show them confidence. And your decision as I said depends on how he performs at first class level. If like Khawaja, his averages drop significantly, then you put him aside for a year or so and see if he recovers. If there is a player with better first class averages or comparable averages you choose them. Therefore Maddinson, Lynn, Burns come into the equation. But they are all still below his averages and performing no better than Hughes at present so he's still in my mind at the top of the pecking order. Doolan is way down below these guys. So in answer, what would I do. Depends on age, ongoing first class performances, first class averages. If he comes out top, pick him.

Actually after 49 tests Steve Waugh was averaging 35.64 as opposed to Hughes 32.65. Waugh had of course an advantage because he batting further down the list and therefore avoided the more aggressive bowling. He was also not out 11 times by that test as opposed to Hughes 2 not outs which tends to bolster Waugh's averages Yet how many times was Waugh dropped. Some will say he was there initially as an all rounder. But he only took 45 wickets in those 49 tests, less than a wicket a test. He was not dropped once despite those figures until later tests when he was replaced by his brother. When recalled he became exclusively a batsman and his career blossomed. Some would say that Waugh became the fine batsman he became because the selectors retained faith in him and allowed him to work on his flaws. Knocking Hughes for being dropped four times is more an indictment on the selectors than Hughes I would say. Same applies to Khawaja

Anthony you obviously do t know much about Starc then!

To be fair to Lynn, he missed the entire fc season last year with injury and this season is simply reinforcing the promise he showed a couple of years ago

Because Wattos currently batting 3......and it's not working. Need to fix our 3problem first. Long term looks like Faulkner will replace Watson.....but as an all rounder down the order. We can live without an all rounder in Sydney

Ronan what I am saying is that selection should be based on performance at first class level taking into consideration age. I dont agree with the idea that if a player is dropped a couple of times that he should be consigned to Coventry. If his performances at first class level warrant it then you should continue to select him. The gap between first class and tests obviously is significant, but there's no magic element to it. Its just a more intense form of cricket because every ball faced is bowled by test rated bowlers. Not surprising that if you look at batsmen during their 20s often for many years they struggle to first get about 30 and then above 40. Some take more time but as demonstrated by Hayden, slowness does not mean lesser ability. Again this is not purely about Hughes, as it wasnt before purely about Khawaja. It is about recognising talented players coming through and selecting them if they are demionstrating at first class level an ability to consistently score big runs then select them. I have spoken out about Khawaja because he was treated unfairly, even when he was doing well at first class level. But now that he is off the boil and is struggling in first class cricket, I have not recommended him because he has work to do. For a time Hughes was the same but he is now performing as well as anyone in Shield cricket and only David Hussey has a better first class average of non test playing batsmen. That's why he deserves his chance, because he is performing. If you recall I also pushed for Maddinson and Doolan at different stages when they were on the boil. Maddison in particular was looking the goods. I havent pushed Silk as yet because I wanted to see him over a couple of seasons, like Lynn. Now I expect Doolan has been chosen just to experience the test arena. Whether he plays or not, I dont think he'll be selected for S.A. I think Hughes will be selected as long as his first class matches et al show consistent scoring. But even if Doolan was, I would expect like most new batsmen an occasional brilliant innings surrounded by a bunch of low scoring matches, just as all the younger batsmen go through. But its different with Hughes/Maddinson/Doolan to do that and a 30 something batsman to do that like Bailey, because the latter is unlikely to improve much. The others probably will, but I also expect them to fail many times along the way. That's how they learn surely.

See. You're defeating your argument Ronan. Again I am not disputing Doolan's right for a chance at test level and hope he does well. But lets be logical about it. Doolan is 28 years old with a sub 38 first class average. There are many younger batsmen with better averages. And my comment regarding consistency relates to the fact that he has been around a longer time and should now at his age be showing the consistency of an established batsman. He had a reasonable season last year averaging 42, but the year before it was a shade under 30. This year its 39. In the Aust A matches he averaged 40 ish. Good but when one compares him to say Maddinson at age 22, he's just not in the race. Maddinson has a better first class average at 22 than he has at 28. Lynn is averaging 71 this season, Burns 51, Hughes 61, Silk 35. All either better this season than Doolan or close and all with better first class averages. And his consistency this Shield season : 9, 75, 35, 17, 0, 19, 41, 12, 31, 56, 132. Probably good for a 21 year old but for a 28 year old...???. But hey he's better than Bailey and he's got some potential.

NCN hoike into the crowd was awesome. Sorry , just having a laugh and good luck to him No disrespect to Hooley Doolan but to not pick Hughes is ignoring form.

atlast!dnt think u ever experienced such a backlash before.

then how's faulky wattos direct replacement?thats peculiar

Here here! Blood Doolan at 3 If Watson is fit, move him down to 6 Bailey isn't going yo cut it in tests, move him out. Harris should be rested, blood NCN. We want to build the next dynasty, not win a dead rubber......and that's not to say that the guys that are there aren't going to give it everything in line with what we've achieved in this series......and their quite capable of winning!

Tests are earnt on merit. The team is winning. Pretty dam stupid to ignore winning as a criteria in selection. Bailey never got a chance to score his match winning century at the MCG and cement his place because others beat him to it. He may be on borrowed time and another test will help. The obvious replacements are in place. So much nonsense speculating about things that aren't going to happen. The team has been picked. The brain dead team selections in the Indian tests were due to a misguided coach and captain (being a majority of tour selectors) not being up to date with history, wicket and form. They've changed and improved since.