Sam Burgess to quit the NRL at the end of 2014 season

Col - I seem to remember you dismissing the story as a beat up by the Murdoch press while at the same time I wrote on these pages that I suspected it was true. Your credibilty shrinks every time you touch a keyboard...I guess those dumb Murdoch journalists are better at their job than you would care to admit. After dismissing the journalist who originally sniffed out the story as more or less a liar will you publicly apologise to him now that it is you who looks like a fool? Wht would any sensible person be interested in any "news" you have on this story when you got the whole thing so spectacularly wrong from the word go?The truth is you no less about the details than the local village idiot. You wouldn't have put your credibilty on trhe line and dismissed the original story as crap if you had any knowledge of what was actually going on.

I understand your point but Centres in Union work very differently to Centres in League. They are much more of a combination and have to work very closely together in defence and attack. You'll see combos throughout Union history who have been very different players but teamed up well. It's not uncommon to have a big wrecking ball of a player and a faster, or more creative player in the other jersey. Look at the French pairing now for a very good example - Bastareaud is absolutely huge while Fafana is a much more creative and faster player. It's about them working together effectively and having the right combination of skills between the two of them to fit the teams style of play. I would say that you could well play Sam Burgess at 12 or 13 but in a very specific manner. One of the strengths of League players is their ability to keep the ball alive and off load even in fierce contact. SBW showed time and time again how this skill was very hard for Union teams to defend against and it would release other All Black Players in behind the opposition front line. If Bath and England can use Sam Burgess as an aggressive runner who takes the ball into contact and then off loads to either his Centre partner or either of the wings or Mike Brown at Full Back running a good line then that could be a great weapon. The current England 13 runs very good lines and has scored two nice tries in the 6 Nations already through picking the right time and line for his burst. Give him a few Big Sam pops to charge onto and England could look good. Problem is, can Sam Burgess do the distribution role of a 12 in Union?? Exciting times ahead for English Rugby Union! We should not treat him as another SBW or as some sort of saviour - but he could be a very powerful weapon that many teams will struggle to control

Why the comments then from Messrs Kennedy and Cotton?

Agreed

As a fan of course I'm not happy about the Burgess matter but doesn't mean I have to listen to the endless (& false) histrionics of the move. It's like the union media using Folau lately about it all being about the international travel for him resigning in union and dishing the community that gave him his start in life or the sport that opened up all these opportunities. Wasn't this the same guy who wanted to be closer to family and less moving around? What crap will we read about the Burgess move? Somehow when a union player signed with league it was all about the money but union just can't accept a league player going soley for the money. It would be more revisionist malicious history fall by the wayside. Enjoy the money Sam.

Agreed. SBW is a more athletic and overall dynamic player than Burgess, and it took him a good year to really hit his straps at centre in Union, but it still wasn't enough to see him start in the RWC final. He was starting in 2012, so he made it eventually, but the guy was still an aberration in terms of forward converts to Union. Don't forget, former England Andy Farrell had a crack at this not long ago and it would be a compliment to say he was mediocre. There's only one genuine behemoth that has truly managed to master forward play in both codes and achieve all there is - and that is Brad Thorn - the man with a mug only a mother could love and no room left around his neck or on his fingers for all the championship rings and medals he's cellected. For the uninitiated, these are the achievements Thorne collected: Rugby League Brisbane Broncos Super League title 1997 1997 World Club Championship NRL titles: in 1998, 2000, and 2006 State of Origin 14 State of Origin appearances for Queensland State of Origin titles with Queensland, 1998[8] and 1999[9] Kangaroos Eight Tests Matches for the Australian Kangaroos Rugby Union Canterbury: NPC titles 2001 and 2004; Ranfurly Shield holder Crusaders: 2008 Super Rugby title All Blacks Bledisloe Cup 2003, 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Tri-Nations titles 2003, 2008 and 2010 (Undefeated in 2003 and 2010) Grand Slam 2008 and 2010 2011 Rugby World Cup champion Leinster 2012 Heineken Cup title

haha Cathar.... your obviously really upset about this sorry saga. This is a thread involving league and union discussion so hopefully that hasn't broken any of your participation rules. It would be great if you could point out some of those 'anti league rants' and highlight where i 'was exaggerating' in my post? I posted one comparison of crowd numbers in response to your points about tv numbers and crowds. Good try.

"Remind me why do Wasps attract pitiful crowds when there is 80,000 at internationals in London?" You fail to understand the difference between league and union. Union is a players game and League is a spectators game. 80,000 to watch internationals are likely to be from active club members of which there are nearly 2 million registered players in England alone. In fact when I lived in England each club would enter a draw to get tickets for internationals, they received the priority tickets. When the big clubs play t2 million registered players are too busy wading around in the mud at their local club. Internationals are normally played in the evenings "Perhaps SW England perceptions shouldn’t be thrust on the rest of the country. ", that had me rolling around the floor, the South West is traditionally a working county like Yorkshire, Lancashire, they hardly "thrust" their perceptions on the rest of the country! Also it's not just the South West that enjoy rugby, the east midlands too, Leicester are the highest supported club by a country mile. By the way I'm not anti-league, in fact my "dream" is that we merge back to form rugby football and put all this sh1te behind us. I'd love to see Wigan taking on Toulon in the European cup! That'll be decades away but it will happen!

nzmate, you're always on league threads with your anti league rants. See me on union sites? How many league people do you see on union threads? You can all exaggerate your pants off on the union threads but don't come on league threads with the same delusions. You sound like your AFL friends with the crowd numbers and if that's what your sports all about now then enjoy the plastic fantastic. One of my best league experiences was being a part of 2500 at Wingham Park, Greymouth for a West Coast v Russia league game back in 2004. Not an 80,000 crowd in site. Don't care, still love my league and your game means nothing to me.

I'm from the north , grew up playing union , and yes I did go to a state school. Every town pretty much has a union team where I grew up(even Wigan ! But also working class "soccer" towns like Rochdale, Bury, Oldham, Burnley and Eccles ). most players at this level are not from private schools but local lads who want to play rugby . the guardian is possible the worst example you could have chosen, they are the biggest liberal (in a global sense , not Australian) paper in the UK. Things must be really bad if they are plotting the demise of rugby league!

Cathar your anti-union rants are getting tired. I think most fair minded people would agree that both codes have their issues in the UK. Union small crowds and financial challenges for northern teams; league equally with London and Bradford. Likewise players switch between codes regularly now and it isn't really a big deal. Union has tended to go after established league stars and league (in the instance of australia) have in recent times gone after schoolboy rugby union stars from NZ. League's strength is in its domestic fixtures as your numbers indicate, while unions is at international level i.e. 5000 crowd to see the best league team in the world in a world cup quarter final compared to 80000 to watch an end of year tour game in union. Time to move on.

Then explain why one of the top union clubs attracted a TV audience of under 70,000? Why aren't these multitudes buying cable TV? How can a Super League game of the same stature attract 359,000? Why the need to sign Burgess if there are all these academies/players? Sorry tc, but union isn't in the hearts or minds of most English. Bandwagon 6 nations aside, the sport struggles and even soccer fans complain that club union's media presence just doesn't justify the column inches. it's shoved down people's throats and still isn't at the levels it should be. 5000 crowd average at Sale & Newcastle, backed by rich sugar daddies and still half the country is oblivious. your arguments don't add up. Perhaps SW England perceptions shouldn't be thrust on the rest of the country. Remind me why do Wasps attract pitiful crowds when there is 80,000 at internationals in London?

Col Quinn. Got to laugh mate ,i'm living in the south west of England at the moment and Union has a big presence in this region. Union may not have the TV presence of Football but it is definitely played across England in large numbers. You have to stop with this conspiracy mentality by the English media because the truth is League just simply does not have the nationwide exposure and that's why its not in the hearts and minds of the average people, sorry but that's the truth. I don't know if steve's comments above are correct about the high numbers of juniors up north,and I will leave that for him to prove, but where i have been Union is definitely holding its own.

Why am I the only Souths supporter who is sad to see him leave? Hell, why am I the only person to feel that way? Am I a moron for thinking that Sammy is a good forward who, though committing some low acts, will and should (in my opinion, at least) be remembered as a good player and a top bloke? I met the guy. He's great off the field. You know, many of my fellow supporters don't even believe me when I tell them that people think Burgess is a grub. I don't believe it either, but it's sad that a few low acts (which I do not condone) has led to his being judged this harshly to the point where no one will miss him. I cannot be the only one! Surely!

I heard Steve Hansen,McCaw & co laughing when they heard the news the All Blacks & Springboks will hammer him he's very one dimensional

What has pro rugby got to do with anything? There's no pro rugby in Argentina yet the game is probably at it's strongest point ever. The NBL in Australia is a mess but we have over 150 players in US college programmes. Just because pro rugby in the North isn't strong has no bearing on the game at a junior level. Of the 30 English u/20 players at the last WC 18 were from the north.

Steve Don't know how you work that one out that rugby union is thriving in the north. Wasn't it only last week that Leeds Carnegie proposed changing its name to Yorkshire Carnegie to attract more interest? Wasn't it a year or two ago that Brian Kennedy of Sale Sharks said that rugby union was dying in the north and Fran Cotton said the standard of rugby union in the north was the lowest it had ever been? Aren't Sale looking at changing grounds because of poor crowds? I remember when it was thriving when state grammar schools existed but the decline in the north coincided with the end of the State GS system. Leeds may have a strong RU academy but it gets kids from all over Yorkshire and isn't in the same league as the Leeds RL academy..for instance in comparison to players like McGuire,Mathers,Bailey,Burrow,Watkins, Jones-Buchanan,Jones-Bishop,Sinfield,Sutcliffe etc over the last 10 years how many top players has it produced? I'm not knocking it I'm just trying to put another perspective on it. Leeds is a great sporting city but its 2 main clubs are Leeds Utd and Leeds RL the population by and large doesn't identify with the RU club hence the reason for the name change.If the people in the city don't identify with it I can't see how it is thriving.

Burgess did

The fact that Andy Farrell wanted someone to sign Burgess is a long way from a coordinated campaign by the RFU to sign a plethora of league players because of the RLWC. You've made a big jump to get to that conclusion. You've inferred one from the other, but I don't buy it.

Then why the need for Burgess & the like? Why employ league people in coaching ranks? The quality must be pitiful but then again union is a mediocre game.