Reds vs Western Force: Super Rugby live scores, blog

Numnuck it's Nathan Charles where did u get Matthew? You would think in his 50th game you could at least get his name right!

All good BB, and don't necessarily disagree. My point is just that when forced to, due to low stocks in a position, he can take risks. And hougaard is a contracted player (!!) and isn't to play wing and had a torrid time last year getting kicks charged down. So if he's going to have a "dart from the base" type 9 I wouldn't discount pretorius. He has said he's keen on reinach (remember he got the bok camp call up so HM has him in his plans and has an infinitely better box kick than pienaar). HM's game plan "evolution" at the Bulls followed similar pattern (at least after he had been fired and then asked to return with the bulls at the bottom of the log). I do buy that he takes a season or two to settle combinations and equally once those are as stable as they can be and players understand each other they naturally anticipate, spot gaps etc. like running a marathon (to me at least), it takes five kms to get into a steady rhythm. Then again, jake saw immediate results and won the 3N in 2004 so his first year. Dunno, I like sarel and reinach but the lightie does exhibit the odd brain fart. FDP to spend the next year to 18m playing and taking him under his wing would be first prize.

:D

Chopper, if you recall Schreuder went on the end of year tour last year, I personally prefer Reinach. As far as Willie is concerned, having a playmaker at the back is not entirely the same thing as replacing Fourie du Preez with let's say Sarel. As for the game plan, Meyer is talking BS (in a sense) why? Because a few things have changed. The Bok attack is varied, something we never had before. Example, we take more risks, never used to attack from within our own half, but now if the players see it is on, they go. We used to play one pass rugby, now we go more passes and look to offload which never happened in the past. Our loose trio has a linking game via Louw and Vermeulen, have you ever seen Spies offload or putting another support runner into space? There are of course certain aspects of our play where execution has been improved, just look at the manner in which we clear rucks. So when Meyer says his plan has not changed, it isn't entirely true, yes out fundamentals are the same, but we have added more variety and a willingness to attack.

By BB's definition of Meyers game (not wrong, but not quite complete) SP wouldn't work. Cobus Reinach has the box kick and can feed 10 and dart, so the feeling is he's probably the future (I like sarel though - have always felt he should be our back up 9 but has had poor form perceptions from his time at the tahs). But then again, that was the view on Goosen at 10, but kak happens and things change. Du Preez does slot into a play off 9 and 10 or big forwards to carry, pick and drive game plan. And that is where we all default to in our perception of bok rugby and Meyers game plan in particular after 2012. But had we won at Ellis park and tied on bonus points we would have won the RC (as it was, the final pd was +87 ABs and +86 SA after all said and done, and after losing to the ABs twice. So we just needed the win and equal bps). And the ABs actually kicked for territory a fair bit more than we did if you check the stats. Why is this relevant? Meyer ironically had to convince everyone that in fact the game plan had not changed. But it looked completely different from 2012-2013. But it's the same blueprint he used with the bulls (who demolished the chiefs in the final in 2009 and not on penalties and drop goals...). And thats because Meyers game plan is not just to play off 9. It is a license to PLAY if it's on, but if it's not on, go for territory, maak sag, break things up and then if the game opens up run amok. Fourie isn't Meyers first choice because he plays "Bulls rugby" but because he is tactically unmatched and breaks when he sees it, kicks and kicks well, and also slots into the tight conservative forward game if that's what's required, or territory is key. The boks, if anything started running from anywhere a bit too much last year, last game case in point. Entertaining, but some defense would have gone down a treat. So, bb, my comment was that ABSENT Fourie, who stands out? Pienaar, who was poor last year and only seems to look good in the north? The others have been average or inconsistent. See this months SA Rugby. Hougaard was granted a bok contract earlier this year. That's not to play on wing, even though he's better out there, except as a sub. At the bulls he's been better at 9 this year because they've instructed him to play as he sees it rather than try change his style to fit the blueprint. So this can only mean he's in the mix for the boks at 9. And since he does not fit the perceived play off 9 game plan as his kicks are easily read, then as far as de Klerk is concerned, can't rule him out. If hougie is still there you can't write de Klerk off. If hm sticks to his word and only brings lambie on at 10, there is space for a different 9. My point about Le roux was just to say that up until then we all thought hm could only tolerate the kirchner-esque fullbacks. AND we all assumed he would only ever put safe, boring, low risk players at 15. We have a few of those so Le roux wasn't necessarily in. And he drops a few from time to time and did so a couple of times in the RC. He's exciting but not exactly low risk. HM, IMHO, is more pragmatic than he gets credit for.

From the outside you've got to give the coach credit. That seems to be the main difference.

Give Sarel Pritorius a crack.

Totally agree about the bias. Just read the latest from the toilet paper called 'The Australian' and it said the Reds played all the rugby and deserved to win. I guess you do have to get the points on the board to prove them wrong.

I actually think their depth isn't too bad, if you listen to Hodgeson after the game you get the impression that they can bat down to #30...

Zing

Poor Lions, they surely missed Stuart Berry in the lineout, scrums, break down and TMO.

can someone tell me how the Lions are in 6th place and the Saders in 12th place on the table?

A championship team would have taken all the tries on offer tonight.

good to get the win Saders but they still look average. I mean they were suppose to blow away the weakest team in the comp . This win didnt feel as convincing as the score board. Hope they keep improving

the last 2 games have been an improvement in attack at least. everyone beating each other will ensure the saders make the finals.

cheers common. I knew it was not too long ago that I saw him take a shot

Much needed win for the Crusade. Well done.

3 wins, a draw and a loss. pretty darn good if you ask me

Against Ireland in 2012 is the last time I can think of.

If the crusaders don't win anything else this year then at least they achieved the first pan Indian Ocean win.