In an idle moment over the weekend, my somewhat atrophied and lethargic brain matter got to pondering the number of Wallabies caps that have been won by players who won’t go down in history as names to remember.
As the fixation didn’t pass quickly, I figured I’d find out just how good a team would be for the Wallabies if you picked solely on number of caps won.
Ground rules:
1) Start with George Gregan and fill out a 15-man team using the first come best served approach.
2) Players who covered many positions over their career will be consdered for their favoured position, which will be determined on percentage of games they played in that position.
Loosehead prop: Benn Robinson – 66 caps, 25th on all-time list
Hooker: Stephen Moore – 92 caps, 8th
Tighthead prop: Al Baxter – 69 caps, 21st
Lock: Nathan Sharpe – 116 caps, 2nd
Lock: John Eales – 86 caps, 9th
Blindside flanker: Rocky Elsom – 75 caps, 17th
Openside flanker: George Smith – 111 caps, 3rd
Number 8: Toutai Kefu – 60 caps, 31st
Halfback: George Gregan – 139 caps, 1st
Flyhalf: Stephen Larkham – 102 caps, 4th
Wing: David Campese – 101 caps, 5th
Inside centre: Tim Horan – 80 caps, 12th
Outside centre: Adam Ashley-Cooper – 94 caps, 6th
Wing: Joe Roff – 86 caps, 10th
Fullback: Matt Burke – 81 caps, 11th
Unsurprisingly, it looks to be a pretty formidable side, especially once you start looking into the bigger numbers towards the back of the park. If you viewed it with an eye to history you might think that some of the fellas up front don’t deserve the position, but the sheer number of games played in the current era are likely the reason for that fact.
For the 15 picked there are a total of 1358 caps, or an average of 90 caps per player.
The lowest number of caps was 60, for Kefu, and highest is obviously Gregan’s 139.
Of the top 31 Wallabies by caps won 15 are forwards and 16 are backs.
The highest number of caps to not make the side was Matt Giteau with 92.
pat malone
Guest
you do have a very good knowledge of many sports
pat malone
Guest
Johnno, you should change your name to "lists"
Johnno
Guest
Sure do Pat love it bring it on.
Johnno
Guest
I was a CAS boy Pat,so played against the GPS boys, hated em to the core. Joeys boys that are soft let's see Al Campbell a big lumberjack could rip in harder for a bloke his size, he's no Dan Vickerman in the tough guy stakes trust me. And Tom Bowman a scot's lad, could of been tougher for a bloke of his size, a bit soft. Let's see some other Joey's lad, Peter Playford was a limited player. Tim Kelleher could never step up when he got his wallaby caps. He couldn't cut it at wallaby level Pat. Peter Jorgensen played in the NRL and was a good player, so he wasn't soft. Ben Kennedy played in the NRL but he only did 1 year at joey's his last, so he was a hard man developed somewhere else, as was Jarryd Saffy whose South African. Alot of joey's boys made the wallabies and GPS lads, coz it's not a bogan or westy sport in OZ. If all the pacific islanders, didn't play league out west, all these years or the working class white boys many, GPS boys wouldn't of been in the wallabies. You think Wally Lewis,Brett Kenny,Peter sterling,Jarryd Hayne,Greg Inglis,Andrew Johns wouldn't of made the wallabies. Im sure Jarryd Hayne and Greg Inglis have nightmares about Adam Ashley Cooper, not. Love to know what the boarding school food at joey' was like you tell me. Could you get a good feed at joey's or not.
pat malone
Guest
you love a list Johnno, rattling off names trying to impress everybody
pat malone
Guest
you are very anti GPS Johnno, thanks for calling me soft. how many joeys guys that have represented Australia are soft?
Nobody
Guest
Thanks SS, a minor change but well worth it to get Baxter out of there (:
Gasparin
Guest
I hate to burst your bubble, but Mark Loane played for The Bookworms, or The University of Queensland, for the uninitiated.
markjohnconley
Guest
Well said, agree 100%, thanks Al Baxter
Statistic Skeptic
Roar Pro
Or to put it in a different light - here's the 'Off the Bench' list, which is made up of players who got the most caps as a substitute: Note: I haven't differentiated between tight and loose, or 4 or 5, or blind or openside here as ESPNScrum doesn't either. Props: James Slipper (28); Matt Dunning (25) Hooker: Jeremy Paul (38) Locks: Mark Chisholm (25); Dan Vickerman (22) Flankers: Phil Waugh (35); Matt Cockbain (29) Number 8: Ben McCalman (15) Halfback: Chris Whitaker (26) Flyhalf: Elton Flatley (18) Wings: Drew Mitchell (15); Mitch Hardy (5) Centres: Nathan Grey (16); Anthony Fainga'a (14) Fullback: Matt Burke (12) Mat Rogers (19) - but he's credited as a 'Utility Back' for his substitutes, so not sure if he should displace a centre or Burke at Fullback.
Statistic Skeptic
Roar Pro
Nobody - for the Australian team there isn't a massive difference, as most of those on the list were often in the starting lineup. Most of the numbers come down - but the only change is Baxter out and McKenzie in. Here's the adjusted list with only matches in the starting lineup: Loosehead prop: Benn Robinson – 53 starts Hooker: Stephen Moore – 69 starts Tighthead prop: Ewen McKenzie - 50 starts Lock: Nathan Sharpe – 109 starts Lock: John Eales – 86 starts Blindside flanker: Rocky Elsom – 73 starts Openside flanker: George Smith – 93 starts Number 8: Toutai Kefu – 52 starts Halfback: George Gregan – 133 starts Flyhalf: Stephen Larkham – 97 starts Wing: David Campese – 100 starts Inside centre: Tim Horan – 80 starts Outside centre: Adam Ashley-Cooper – 88 starts Wing: Joe Roff – 79 starts Fullback: Matt Burke – 69 starts
Nobody
Guest
Interesting. SS, I don't suppose you'd be tempted to come up with similar stats, but counting starts rather than just caps? As you noted, that would be kinder to players from eras before we became substitution mad (it would still be hard on those great players who peaked at the same time and were unlucky enough to be competing for the same position, but that's life)
Justin3
Guest
Incorrect
Statistic Skeptic
Roar Pro
As DaniE has already said - I haven't picked 'my' all time best fifteen (and to be honest I wouldn't consider myself qualified to do so). All it is is a happy little diversion with no real meaning.
DaniE
Guest
Uh I think statistic skeptic wasn't necessarily choosing his first XV... He was just wondering what it would look like based on caps (and from the stats that were available online?)
Glenn Innes
Guest
I don't claim to be an expert on Rugby Union but I can see a huge flaw in your system...a massive bias to modern players because they play a lot more test Rugby these days. This is as crude as muck as a way to pick an all time great Wallaby team..I agree with using caps as the basis for picking such a team ,it is impossible to compare players from different eras who never played against each other...all you can do is be the best in the era you play so I am sympathetic to your criteria. But you need to be a little more sophisticated than just the raw number of caps which gives a huge bias to modern players.A better method is looking at how many years a player played senior Rugby and what percentage of the available tests did he make the team. For eg if a player played nine years of senior Rugby and during that period Australia played say fifty test and the player played forty of them that means he made the Wallabies eighty percent of the time. Obviously longevity is an issue in being regarded as a great player(the longer you play the more opponents you have challenging for your job so the harder it is to keep it simple maths) so you need to set a minimum number of years maybe seven (not perfect of course but you have to draw the line somewhere>) Also obviously injury can be a factor but durability is a virtue in sport so injury prone players need to be marked down.I realise this would be a lot of work but it is the only rational way of comparing Wallaby players throughout the games history - your method is just so primitive.
sheek
Roar Guru
Love that genslin site. I just wish there was an Aussie with both the love of the Wallabies & expertise with IT systems to put something similar up for the Wallabies. And the willingness to spend the time & energy to put it all together.
Simon Bedard
Roar Pro
Well I haven't double checked the stats, but that team looks pretty good to me. I can see the level of vitriol spat at some of these players, but no one can take away their record. Respect to all the men on this list....you have represented your country that many times, you should be proud. Well done.
Jerry
Guest
In his next test, Sam Whitelock (in his 5th season of test rugby) will equal the number of tests Colin Meads managed in 16 seasons of test rugby.
Johnno
Guest
Amazed Colin Meads and Byron Williams racked up so many tests in there era. They'd be about 200-220 in the modern era.