Crows fans must stop living in 2012

I want to see a Showdown GF.

Nope, Barney, I've followed what's going on as best I can. I noticed Osborne was improving and Jacobs needs backing up; as does the team if he is injured. I've been hoping that Siggins would step up but felt it was unrealistic to expect him to be ready in 2015. Atkins figures amongst the best players and we do need that speed and spread. There are a few there that I don't expect us to know much vis a vis AFL until after 2015. Nevertheless, it's good news what you say. Hartigan and Shaw should have been ready before them, so I was looking to them, but injuries! injuries! Kelly has fine raps and is not alone. 2017-18 will be interesting. I'm most confident about the Crows mids stock. It's almost like we've got what we need for years to come. I'm hoping the SANFL side will fast track some of them in ways that couldn't be done before. It counts for something to play with the likes of Rutten and Callinan and Reilly and co. especially when they are being introduced to the Crows game and professionalism. I was surprised they haven't won more games, but I think the focus is on development, and they're very young even by SANFL standards. Port are doing well.

Vocans- have you had a chance to see any of the sanfl team this year? Jack Osborne is starting to look really good up forward. He is about 207cm and awesome overhead. His goal kicking is starting to straighten up too. I feel like they should really start playing him. I think Siggins is beginning to really develop as a key backman in the form of Rutten. And Atkins is starting to show the form he always promised to have. Heaps of outside speed and tough. What do you think?

So Fremantle continued to take the crows lightly even tho they had been beaten twice by them already? So no one took them seriously after they defeated Geelong? What planet are you on? The crows fall down the ladder was due to the exodus, aging and retirement of players. The team is very very different and has a team full of players who have played under 50 games.

Some good comments here so far. Definitely it's a young team and experience not only fosters skills but also mindset. And there's no other way to get it than by experience. Maybe Talia is an exception because he's had the mindset from about game 5 of his career. It's also been a team hit by significant injuries throughout the year, some of them freakish. Not only are they young they are also missing a couple of big mobile players - and I'm not sure that an injury-prone Shaw, and Hartigan (who's promising but it's too early) are it. Otten will go the way of Truck in terms of pace, and pace is increasingly essential in today's game, especially as present and coming big forwards are also mobile ones. Do the Crows go for Frawley? There is a need for a ready made back in 2015. Tex's lack of pace is also an issue unless the ball is delivered on top of his head or absolutely lace out. His kick and footy smarts are his major weapons. Who will replace Jpod? Jenkins is still learning and he needs to learn what his big body can do that very few others can, and exploit it. He is too often content to see the ball over the line when, as a forward, he should be trying to create, and that body will let him create. He wrestles too often rather than going for the mark, and is too content to 'provide the contest etc'. I think he will get there but he needs to (be allowed?) to take the game on more often. Early in the season contested ball was the issue. That was largely addressed. Late, it is spread and countering spread. The lack of spread means kicking to contests or through congestion which requires absolute accuracy, and the Crows have too often lacked accuracy. Spread means more kicking to space and to players who are clear enough for enough lee way in accuracy. Without proper spread, handball is congested and increasingly under pressure merely to release the ball. The Crows overdid handball as a result. Congestion means forward entries are rushed, take time to build, are easily read, and are therefore often to congested contests. All of this has been a feature of the Crows' lesser and worst footy this year. After a stellar season Smith went off the boil. Henderson is still getting his feet back. CHB was unstable due to injury. as were the backs in general. Consequently, rebound 50s fell way in numbers and, particularly important, in quality. This is a crucial stat in the modern game, because many damaging attacks start there with good half back service in metres gained and accurate passes and buildups. Maybe Sando needs to realise that Adelaide is not Geelong? He has a mix of very clever players (Smith, Henderson, Laird, Betts, and others) who will need to contribute their own style to Adelaide's game. I don't think Sando has had the player options this year to make striking tactical decisions during games. This showed with Ziebell for whom there was no real match up, except perhaps Danger. Injuries affected individual players' momentum as they were in and out of the team (eg Kerridge and Henderson were real losses especially after Van Berlo was out); and this affected overall team momentum. It wasn't only the injuries themselves but their mix and timing. I'm not one who spouts the old saw that 'injuries are no excuse', because they are often very significant, and lists cannot cover all eventualities - just ask Collingwood who are the current and prime example. Injuries have bedevilled the Crows 2 years running - young players need stable teams in which to grow quickly; it takes longer in less stable teams. 2015 will tell us a lot about Sando providing the injuries are at reasonable levels and are not to too many crucial players.

Read my post- I think some of those sides underestimated Adelaide- Adelaide wouldn't have won all those games had they been taken seriously. The Crows' fall down the ladder since 2012 is what people like me said would happen back then.

Inconsistency is the word that springs to mind immediately. And I'm not sure that is all down to young players either - Dangerfield probably has the biggest gap between his best and worst football of any player in the team. As a Port supporter I hope we get a Showdown final if we don't get top 4, but I'm also wary of what the Crows are capable of on their day.

Yeah i love the look of Grigg, M.Crouch, Lyons, Ellis Yolmen and Atkins. Port is def a good yard ahead of us with their development, great development of young players BTW at that club, but the future looks good and def some awesome showdown finals to come.

Definitely agree Radelaide. The loss of Bailey is massive. I think that Sando is great at bringing the players together and lifting spirits etc but he has not developed a great tactical set yet and would really improve if he had someone like John Worsfald, Choco, or even a Terry Wallace backing him up and giving a few whispers to the ear.

Your very correct Winston. I think that they have replaced Rutten with Talia, and theres Tex but he is a very different player to Tippet and doesnt cover that loss. Tex is more of a half forward that roams the wing and forward half. Pods is too old to replace Tippet and Jenkins still really learning the ropes and in my opinion not hard enough at the ball.

Gotta remember mate that they beat Geelong, Sydney, West Coast and Fremantle twice that year so they still beat top teams other than Hawthorn, Collingwood and North so whats your point? They had an easy draw yes, but they still beat the top teams and the eventual premiers plus fremantle, who supposedly only lost because they were tired.

Crows have a lot of promise coming. Enticing Crows v Power finals I can see from 2015 onwards.

I believe they had a good mix young and older players, great draw, no injuries, Tippett and Dean Bailey was the true brains in the box (look at Sando the last couple of years just trotts out the same lines. If it's a win they played the Crows way, if it's a loss they didn't and he doesn't know why just that they need to be better). 2012 was the perfect storm of many things going their way and now the coach is all lost and so are the players.

The difference is in Tex, Tippett and Rutten. You can't lose (as in either lose the player or have them play at a substantially lower level) your 3 strengths and expect to still be at the same level. Unless the next crop can emulate the level those 3 achieved, they won't be going up the ladder any time fast.

They also won the lottery in their semi, playing a Dockers side that was travelling for the second week in a row. Despite that advantage they were behind for most of the game and only got up late in the game after the Dockers stopped to a standstill (especially Sandilands who was in about his third game back from a long term injury).

Adelaide overachieved in 2012, they had a very soft draw that year and won other games because their fellow top sides took them too lightly. Had my Hawks lost the prelim to them that year it would've been an embarrassment for both us and the AFL, especially given the Tippett scandal that surfaced soon after. Adelaide are still a decent side but they can't get higher on the ladder because they don't win consistently.