Springboks sneak past Pumas in Argentina

I didn't say the Springbok scrum was terrible, I said it wasn't good - which it isn't, and hasn't been for a long time. Winning your own ball means just that you're stable on your own ball. FInd some statistics about how many scrums SA won. I don't know why you keep up with this Beast malarkey? Him and Jannie are a joke. Presenting one statistic and one alone doesn't exactly paint a broad picture. Anyway, where did you come across this stat? I don't recall you mentioning it last year.

A very ordinary Australian referee. Two Bokke forwards dive over the ruck with thirty seconds to go and Walsh gives the Pumas a scrum.

But their results have been that bad. Yeah, it is stretching it. Matfield and Alberts will make a big difference iMO.

Can see the fluidity in the way all 8 men shove as 1... its actually a thing of beauty, I just didnt like the way that Ayerza bent Jannie inwards. Other than that, Argentina have the best scrum in the world for sure.

Good points Harry. For me, I think Jannie has been overworked, along with beast and biz. None of which are near their best right now. I think HM needs to be bold and think long term here, if he wants to take any of these to the WC, he needs to rest them now. I would start with Trevor, Strauss and vd Merwe in Perth, and keep Beast Biz and Jannie on the bench for when they are needed. Hopefully neither will need to run more than 20 minutes. Start with Eben and Vic, keep Lood on the bench. Move Duane to 7, Play Whiteley at 8 for 60, then bring Willem on and move duane back to 8. Start with Hougie and Pollard, bring Reinach on second 40. Start with Jan at 12, Jean at 13. Bring damien on last 30

Ben, I for one don't think a ranking of 12th does this Pumas side any justice but will wait to see how they go against the other teams before arguing that point too strongly. The ABs putting a 100 points on the Boks? Even if the Boks had a shocker that would still be stretching things.... and may I never be proved wrong!!

Harry, there's more than just Jannie, surely! I can see where HM is going in most positions but 1 and 3 are now worrying me, he's killing fires not building towards anything... 13 is a problem, especially so if Damien doesn't come good and half the solutions involve tinkering with 12 so those positions are now also a worry, in this regard the Boks are looking like having taken a step backward from last year. Breakdown play and defense have looked to go backward too in the RC so far, that is a worry. Yes the Boks may have the wins on the board and that's what they will be judged on, so good on them for getting up and doing it despite firing on only 2 cylinders and it does create something special, a self belief that you can win it from a compromised position, the Boks opponents will experience doubt because of it. But unless they start firing on more cylinders these close wins are going to turn to losses and that self belief is going to evaporate. Strangely my fountain of eternal Bok optimism actually sees them doing well against Oz... already starting to excited for the Perth-toria Party... perhaps that's just a hangover from the Brisbane Bash... sorry couldn't resist :-)

I suggest all of you to watch the following and let me know what if you still fhink argie scrum is ilegal: https:// www.youtube.com/ watch?v=jVz1ytcnn3c Like SA has teh line and mall as trademark, the Argies have the scrum.

The Sharks scrummed well at Super level. Then they played the Baa Baas and Wales, got eaten in the scrum there and then went back to scrumming well at Super level again. Super level isn't really comparable. The Waratahs had a strong scrum with Al Baxter at 3.

Restrictive in what way, it meant we didn't lose any of our scrums, you don't win all your scrums if you are as poor as you suggest.

Ben S, I tend to agree with you, but under the new rules, I think we got lucky, bc the Adam Jones-style or Nicolas Mas style low hits are deemphasized, so a core-power-strength guy like Beast or Malherbe can dominate. Jannie is done, IMO. But Malherbe hasn't been beaten yet (really mad he is hurt) and I think Beast was having a really strong year at the scrums.

The Beasts neck wont make the next world cup, he is over played and the same for Jannie and Bissie. New front row to relieve the pressure, but from where?

But that just illustrates that you didn't lose on your own put in. It's a pretty restrictive stat,

I've actually said multiple times that Cobus Visage was the last really strong technical scrummager that SA produced. Du Randt was a very good player and a good scrummager, but Jeff Probyn he wasn't. Mujati was a joke until he went to play in England. Him going to France is a big mistake.

Nobrain: Of course not. I like the ARG scrum very much, and it's very much a 8-man on the balls of their feet, athletic pose. Greg Norman, one of the great drivers of a golf ball under pressure, ever, talked a lot about his feet. The laws of rugby evolve anyway; if nobody pings ARG, it's legal. Like the skew put-in; it's madness for Pienaar to go straight, when Walsh was never going to enforce it. Good luck to NZ scrumming against this crew. Won't be surprised to see a low score

Jannie doesn't have the body-arm-extension any more, especially under the new engagement rules, to squeeze his loosehead opponent into the right spot. It's not an insult to Jannie. He has served long and well. But his body is breaking down, from overuse, from a lack of flexibility, from scar tissue, from old injuries that were never fully healed. So, a smart loosehead can attack him at diagonal (not necessarily Crockett-perpendicular), or bow his elbow out a bit, knowing that Jannie can only reach the armpit at most, and then it's Fold Up City. I've seen this from Jannie all year. Not just at Test level, either. ARG studied this well, did a great job, and Jannie COULD NOT ADJUST because he lacks the extension and health.

Cobus Visagie and Brian Mujati not technically good? Im sure Os was a pretty good scrummager too. But of late, agreed - I have not been impressed with our props at all, We have far better scrummagers in our currie cup.

Irrespective of your opinion in regards to our props, we had a 100% success rate in the RC last year.

Ok , for what I see I think that SA players have played too much rugby this year and the mental and physical fatigue is taking its toll. A lot of the Argies, have not played that much ( few exemptions, Bosh, Ayerza) and they look more hungry . Is like for SA is another competition while for the Pumas players is the competition. I am sure than in kiwi soil the ref would take care of the scrum situation.

What is this 100% chat? That's just an empty stat. Nobody has rated the Bok scrum in years. You just don't produce technically good props.