Battle of the big forwards key to grand final

Goodes, Tippet, Franklin..... hmm... theres not a coach in AFL history who wouldnt be happy having those 3 in the lineup.. Roughie was sublime last week... but take out his contribution and the Hawks lose... for the first time all year, the Hawks mids looked slow. I guess thats why they have gambled on Cyril. Serendipity, luck, good planning? I dont know what you call it.. but the cards seem to be falling in place for the Swans this year. Extra days rest... ?? AS I said during the pre season......... its going to take a hell of a side to roll the Swans this year.

Buddy can't and won't kick straight against Hawthorn, so Longmire would be genius if he simply used Buddy as a decoy and allowed Tippett or Goodes off the chain. If we come out and are as Buddy-centric as we were in the qualifying final against Freo, mark us down for a loss straight away.

Natalie you speak some absolute crap I swear. Hawks forwardline statistically better than Swans fullstop.

Hawthorn will have to bite the bullet and play Rioli to give them a chance of winning;to leave this ace out of the side if he is fit is unthinkable. The only blonde in the Hawthorne side is my pick for the Norm Smith medal. Rioli even if on the bench will give the hawks a touch of class and he is worth the punt unless he gets absent minded and starts helping his great mate Buddy who he has played alongside for so many games.

AR, it hardly needs to be comprehensive when on the other side of the fence, the Hawks fans speak of how much more potent their forward line is. The stats show they have 3 x 50+ goal kickers to our 1. If it is more potent, why aren't they in front in the games they have played against us? I am simply offering a stat that shows we have it over the Hawks. Am I wrong? In the scope of the argument about the Hawks more potent firepower, the Swans got them. And what I failed to mention was scoring shots in those games between the forward trios was 29 to 22. That's a fairly big discrepancy when we are talking about how many times our trios had the ball in hand and had a shot for goal.

"However in games against each other, the Swans trio has it over the Hawks trio 16 goals to 15". Hardly comprehensive is it Natalie? The real stat is that from the 2 games this year, both Sydney and Hawthorn have kicked 28 goals. So it's pretty even. Bear in mind...in the first game that Sydney beat Hawthorn at ANZ, the Hawks were missing Mitchell, Lake, Hodge...and lost Rioli and Gibson early in the game. In the second game at the MCG, the Hawks were missing Lake, Hale, Spangher and Duryea...and the Swans were missing Hannebery & Shaw.

All over defense will be the key. I think we will see a pressure cooker in the middle, much like the Swans v Freo final, preventing any clean ball use to the forwards from centre clearances. Rebound defense off the half back from both sides, from Malceski, Shaw, Rohan and Birchall, Stratton and Hodge with the ball is transitioned out to those outside runners, Cunningham, Jetta, Rohan, and Smith, Hill. Then it's up to the back six from both sides to stop the big forwards. Pound for pound, Lake and Gibson are better than Richards and Grundy. Malceski has a slight on edge on Birchall this season. Rampe has the edge on Stratton. Hard I to deny Mitchell and Hodge the honours over Shaw and Smith. Depending on how they line up, the forward structures are intriguing. Buddy/Gibson, Tippett/Lake, Goodes/Stratton. I'd like to know who gets Reid. I would expect Birchall to play off him and Hodge to be second man up and in the hole like he does.that leaves Mitchell to defend against a small type like McGlynn but they also need coverage for one other smaller forward and the likes Parker floating back. Up the other end, Roughead/Richards, Gunston/Grundy, Rioli/Smith, Bruest/Rampe, Puopolo/Malceski, and then Lewis to be covered by Shaw perhaps. I think the Hawthorn forward structure is better covered in one and one contests than the Swans forward structure. The fact that Rohan comes down and helps out as a 7th defender and they also have Reid to fill a hole, I think they are a little bit better positioned for the defensive game. In the earlier games, both sides were without key players. Pyke was missing in Round 8, as were Mitchell, Hodge and Lake. The Swans were punished in the hit outs but still won the clearances and had more marks inside 50m and forward entries. Their tackling was outstanding. In round 18, the Swans were without Shaw and Hannebery, and the Hawks without Lake, Spangher and Hale. The Hawks used the ball better, trumped the Swans on inside 50's and beat them at the stoppages. It will be a dong dong battle but I still think it will come down to defense. You can have all the fire power i the world up forward but if the around the ground defenses hold up, it will make delivery to those guys tough. I'm as nervous as all hell because of all the grand finals the Swans have been to, this is the first where they have been heavily backed. Although minor premiers in 96, they were still the underdogs. In 05, their brand of footy was recognised as ugly and West Coasts midfield elite, so they were not expected to win. Even going into 06 as reigning premiers, they did not hold favouritism due to West Coasts dominant mids. In 2012, they were the most underrated side to win a flag, written off early in the year. This time around, they have one hand on the cup, the Hawks with a firm grasp on the other side. Really nervous.

It is very impressive how the Hawks forwards have kicked so many goals this season. However in games against each other, the Swans trio has it over the Hawks trio 16 goals to 15. So that 50+ goals to the three forwards is fantastic but not so effective against my Swannies.

It's strange... All the talk is about Sydney's power forwards, but Hawthorn's forwards have scored far more goals (and far more effectively) this season. For me, it's about who wins the midfield.

Our hope is that Langford doesn't get stage fright and continues his brilliant form in the middle. If he and Mitchell can supply Roughie, Breust and Gunston they have the accuracy to convert it into a winning score. Ditto, Hill on the wing. He has really developed well this year, adding a bit of muscle to his outstanding pace and balance.

Smacks a bit of desperation when you hope the opposition will lose the game, rather than your side winning it! I hope you're right, but think that Swans are just better prepared for this one.

The forwards are only as good as the mid fields allow them to by and I feel it will be the sheer pace of so many of the Swans mids and half backs which will give them the edge. They are exceptional in suppressing easy run through the corridor but can then seize on an error and slingshot out behind you so quickly the defenders must have nightmares. I agree it won't be an all guns blazing shootouts but the midfield edge in speed and pressure will see Sydney create ample scoring opportunities to win.

Slight edge you would have to give to the Hawks forwards, but only just.

As you say Tim, the midfield battle will decide it - unless one team or the other (more likely to be Sydney) kicks very poorly. Whoever gets the more forward opportunities will inevitably win if there is a big enough differential, as good delivery will not be able to be suppressed defensively all day by either defence. I do wonder if the Swans hold just the slightest of advantages in their ability to 'gut run', which is countered by Hawthorn's superior skills (though not by much). Its as even one could ever hope for really, and it'll probably come down to 1 or 2 players standing above the rest. Unlike NYH, I'm hoping both teams play to their very best and we get a cracker of a grand final. I don't want it decided on the basis of poor kicking from one side or the other - I want to see the two best teams go head to head, hard at it for 4 quarters, and see who can pop up in front at the end. I hope it is my Swans, but if it isn't meant to be, it's not meant to be. I'll be happy to see my Swans in their 4th grand final in 10 years - some turn around from 20 years ago when they were the absolute laughing stock of the competition as I was growing up.

Think your right. It could be as simple as which team kicks straight. Both teams have power forwards and no don't over the course of the game they will have chances to hit the scoreboard. Depends on who makes the most of the opportunities.

Think your right. It could be as simple as which team kicks straight. Both teams have power forwards and no don't over the course of the game they will have chances to hit the scoreboard. Depends on who makes the most of the opportunities.

Sydney to spray too many kicks and lose as a result. Reversal of 2012 for the teams, but not the player...

Both teams forward lines are awesome, and if on will lord it over the respective defences.... This being said, both are dependant on being fed by the players up the ground Meaning the game will be won or lost in these midfield battles, and the teams attacks secondary in importance