Can Clarkson's 'chaos theory' win the flag?

Yep. A bold decision. I've no idea whether it'll pay off. Cyril's the sort of player who can have a big impact with just a few touches of the ball. But he can also go missing for long stretches. I'm guessing he'll start as the sub and come on as an impact player late in the game. Have to feel sorry for Simpkin though. He's actually a very good player who rarely puts a foot wrong, but just can't get a clear run in a strong Hawks midfield.

I see they have named Cyril.....

New York, I'm a Hawks man. That was for Momentbymoment. It's okay to support your team but little digs at the opposition supporters and the opposition are underhanded. Just say what you want to say. Reminds me of that Olivia that's everywhere on this site... does my head in. Sydney are an awesome team and it wouldn't surprise me if they get the chocolates. But who gives a flying f*** if supporters are back here to "front up". Carn the Mighty Hawks!!

No it doesn't actually. Because there are so many not pickers on this site, and I didn't articulate myself well, I was actually referring to the playing list and game plan. It was just ok. It had 5 premiership players, one being Goodes, the others Kennelly, Bolton, O'Keefe and LRT. It then contained a string of players who were off the rookie list and a whole list of recycled players. One of those rookies was a ruckmen who had never played the game. They played a very defensive game. They didn't have the slick handball skills at stoppages, the outside run, the two way runners, or the forward options they have today. Horse further defined their solid defense, strengthening the back six, and developing an all over the ground defense. The Bloods culture is and always will be the strong set of values behind the clubs on field and off field behaviours. This was developed by the playing group, along with Paul Roos and Ray McLean from Leading Teams in 2002. It very much determines who comes to and stays with the club.

NYH, I am sorry I can't tell you what you want to hear. I've made some comments relating to facts. There were 5 players cast one vote, were there not? Do umpires constantly come up in conversations in relation to where Brownlow votes are cast? I don't think I have said anything offensive. I actually read a very funny comment on Cam Palmers seven untold stories from the brownlow which identified Brownlow Medalists from the past 15 years who had very distinguishing features and stood/stand out on the ground. I imagine it would be sometimes an impossible task to cast votes after running around for three hours and having really only watched the ball. Do you understand anything about Leading Teams and what they have set out to do at the clubs they have worked with? Club cultures like the Hawks and Swans would not be as strong as they are without this organisations involvement, and one of the key pieces is about players being accountable. Would you think 18 players with Brownlow votes has some sort of connection with playing a role and being accountable? Did Clarko make Buddy a team player? Have Hawks fans on here said things like "we don't need him anymore", "he played within himself"? Is it unfair to suggest that maybe Clarko couldn't make him a team player who could do more than just the individual things? He is certainly playing a different sort of game at the Swans. What is so wrong with this comment? What makes you think I believe Horse is a better coach than Clarko? Is it possible that they are equal? Have I not made my opinion quite clear? Clarko has been very good at rebuilding a club, but had that period after 08 where they didn't finish to well. Horse has taken over a club with an "ok foundation" (I'll reply to your comment about that in that part of this thread) and won a flag and then kept them up there. But overall it is hard to say one is better than the other. Horse won coach of the year this year, did he not? I am not sure what else you want me to say. Isn't that the point though? I am not saying what you want me to say, I am saying what I want to say.

An "ok foundation" is what Roos left Longmire? That contradicts everything anyone has ever said about "the Bloods".

Peter, you are the king of the caveat: "even if 5 players did only get one vote", "even if it is the umpires votes", "testament to the culture leading teams built" then followed by the piece de resistance: "Clarko couldn't make Buddy a team player". And on your other posts being critical of Clarko in 2009 and 2010 in the most passive-aggressive way known. If you have an opinion state it. If you think Horse is a better coach than Clarko just come out and say it. Just don't pass yourself off as some objective observer in the process.

Great question. Any answer?

Didn't Breust have a fair game on Smith in the last clash? Favorite moment was his awesome contested mark against Smith on the coast-to-coast effort in Q3.

I have to defend Longmire against this idea that Roos made his bed for him. Roos left him with a reasonable list but the only real star there was Goodes. From 07 to 10 there was a mass exodus of Swans elite players through retirements and trades. To use his own words "a big clean out". All of the big names, Jolly, Hall, Buchanan, Schneider, Barry, Kirk, C Bolton, Ablett, O,Loughlin, Crouch, Matthews, Davis, left the club. More than half of the 06 GF side. Yes Roos and his recruiting team played a big part in ensuring the Swans stayed in the finals hunt each year, but failed in 09 finishing 12th. In the season before handing over to Longmire, the Swans finished 5th. Kirk and C.Bolton retired. The side was no where near its former self, when Longmire got them to 6th in 2011. We all know what he was able to accomplish with a side that was touted as a bottom 8 team at the beginning of 2012. Alastair Clarkson had a 4 year rebuilding process from 2005 - 2008 before winning that first flag. He can certainly hang his hat on being successful at rebuilding the club and getting them to a flag. By virtue of ladder position in the 04 and 05 seasons, they were able to pick up some pretty good quality draftees. Clever recruiting. Good choices. 9th and 7th in the following years after the flag were perhaps not fantastic efforts. But he did manage to keep them thereabouts. The 3 seasons after that have been great. We do often forget that Longmire has only been at the helm of the club for 4 seasons, made a Grand Final in his second season and won, made a prelim the following year and is at the big dance again. He was awarded coach of the year this season. I don't really think it matters too much what you inherit if you aren't able to do anything with it. Both coaches have been able to do this. One rebuilt his team when they were in dire straits, the other kept it it their and further defined an ok foundation. One couldn't keep his side right up there after winning a flag, there other made a Prelim one year and a Grand Final the next season. Gee, I wouldn't want to be the one to say one is better than the other. But someone made a pretty clear choice for this season....

This is a very well-considered piece of analysis Rick. Great stuff. It's one thing to have ideas and innovation as a coach...it's completely another to get 22 athletes to actually execute those plans week after week. This is the feature of Clarkson's career that is so impressive - that the players have executed his ideas (often new ideas) on the field and had success as a result. It will be very hot in the middle of that cauldron on Saturday - we'll see if the Hawks' gameplan can stay intact.

if cyril does play.. the best thing to do is bring all the forwards up and leave him one out in the 50 with a swans defender, 7/10 times he will beat them!

how is hawthorn not better than 2012? haha. tell me your reasons for judging this?

Cutting edge? Sheedy won premierships in the 80's with the same theory, along with a great team.

Clarko still had to insist on those players, i think you do not have a grasp just how bad the club was when clarko took over. He not only rebuilt the list from scratch, but, took the culture that was fractured beyond belief and took it back to a level that most, if not all in the AFL are in awe of. Even a huge feather in Clarkos cap is this year, he lost who you deem as the best player in the AFL in Buddy, has been ravaged by injuries to key men, health issues himself, but still guided the Club to a chance at a Flag I find his accomplishments this year as extraordinary As for tactics, I struggle to think of a coach that has been as revolutionary as Clarko As for longmire, I think he has been very good, but, essentially Roos made his bed to lie in

Hawthorns rise was inevitable with players like Roughead, Franklin, Rioli, Hodge, Sewell, Lewis etc. Your biggest stars were top draft picks, a direct contrast to Sydney, who had barely any top draft picks in the side besides two or three (I think). Surely then Longmire must get some immense credit for developing some of our current squad and developing a game plan that our list could execute? I think Clarko is better as a strategist, making moves and creating match-ups that best benefit your team on game day, but Longmire is probably ahead in terms of developing players and such. Like I said, Horse has one less flag than Clarkson so he can't be considered yet.

i think you are a bit off the mark here Michael, just take into account: - Clarko took over hawthorn when it was a laughing stock, and built it from scratch into a power club - Longmire acquired a strong list from Roos, and just added fine touches to it Huge difference

If Sydney win, Clarko may relent that title to Longmire. Seriously, what Horse has done with this Swans team is nothing short of spectacular. Very few coaches in history would be capable of taking a winning side, completely changing the team, and have them come out the other side somehow even better. Brilliant player development (just look at the rapid rise of Rampe, Cunningham, Lloyd, Parker, Rohan etc), smart recruiting, excellent game plans, and a desire for nothing but the best puts him on par with Clarko, but with one less flag. If he leads the Swans to victory this weekend, he'll have two flags with the same team but a virtually different game plan. I know it's become blasphemous to suggest anyone other than Clarkson as the best in the comp, but a Swans win this week would force us to reevaluate.

I would have been happy for to him to go anywhere but the swans.