The Swans aren't finished, history suggests they'll bounce back

"I have shown how there has been big margins such as these but success can still occur next year." Actually, Jack, it hasn't happened in the modern era. Carlton of 1993-1995 was the most recent example and that took two years to turn around. Sydney will find this even harder given that their entire culture was based on never- EVER- getting smashed. You have to question whether the "Bloods Culture" as we know it will even survive- let alone whether they can win a flag.

The "Bloods Culture" was all about never getting smashed, now they've been smashed and the culture might have gone with it. Not since the Carlton team of 1993-1995 has a side been smashed in a GF and recovered to win one in the following years. Whether Sydney can buck this trend when you consider the players they're losing (O'Keefe, LRT, Malceski and for all intents and purposes Goodes) is very questionable. Sydney are now trying to cope with the fact that they're no longer everyone's second team and they can't rely on the sympathy supporter like they used to. In such a situation a club's culture can be hard to hold together because some will want cultural change.

Tim H and the rest of these propaganda peddlers here are pushing the same old agenda! Hawthorn were 4-2 in games <12pts in 2013, and 5-0 <12pts in 2014. Geelong were 7-0 <12pts before they finally LOST a close one to North in a final ! 12 point results are LUCK....skill is NOT a dominant factor ! Look at the results of past clubs circa 1930. No team averages anywhere near 80% in close matches over a sustained period ! Geelong are destined to fall down the ladder in 2015, the Hawks even with FRAWLEY won't automatically dominate ! Sydney's record in close games in 2014 didn't determine where it finished ! AND yes, the Hawks weren't thrashed in any game in 2014, although they did lose to Geelong R5 by 19, Sydney R8 by 19. Port R10 by 14, North R16 by 20, Freo R20 by 19. If you stretch the close game record to include games under 20 points, the Hawks went 5-5! Still...They were completely dominated by Fremantle after QT in that game at Subiaco, and Sydney went 18-2 with a % over 160 after that shock R4 loss ! Can the Hawks go back to back to back ....maybe, but they would need the right draw and some more of that luck ;) Will Geelong win another one...NOT a chance !! MY TOP 8 in 2015 Freo Port Hawks North Syd Adelaide West Coast Gold Coast you can decide who makes the granny ! AND for the love of god, don't put Geelong in your 8 ! After they beat Hawthorn in R5 by 19, they faded away badly !! CONSIDER this they won only 4 games in 2014 by 40 or more ! West coast SS 75, STK SS 96, Bris SS 62, Melb MCG 66. The first 3 were at their beloved cattery where they still put up a fight and they got the Dees once they had started to fall apart ! It should be noted that: 1) WORST ever away record for a team equal first 2-4 with % of 69.55 2) WORST ever 6 game losing record (max 110, min 23), av47) for a equal top side EVER 3) First EVER equal top side to concede an av losing margin away(interstate) over 50 ! 55.5 over 4 games ! etc etc Their era ends HERE !!!! As for who I think will win it in 2015 Fremantle ? If they score more heavily like the Hawks, of which I know they can ! Sydney ? They got surprised by the Hawks on grand final day ? Who is coaching who ? North ? who knows ? Port ? If they finish top two, they are a SHOE IN !! Hawks ? Need to play geelong twice :) the REST playing for 2nd spot :)

Frawley to Hawks - hmm will Eddie scream about this???

Natalie Tut-tut lass, you seem confused on a number of points, ill make it simple for you in point form 1, I am not 'angling on anything', as you purport- I am just telling it how it is. It is your choice to see it different. Blind Freddy can see COLA is going to bite on the Swans......... 2, There is a difference between players being 'insipid', and being made to 'look insipid'- you struggle in separating the two. Hawthorn made Sydney look insipid- you try to make out 22 in red and white had collective bad days 3, You chose to indulge in childish antics, i simple saw it as my right to respond, and , frankly trying to play the victim after, as you are is a tad rich :)

Tim You are angling in on the one thing Swans fans all know, hoping that it will hurt us even more. Do you not realise that we all know the Swans were insipid? Have I not been saying this for the last 4 days? Have I not been clear enough? Have I not said the Hawks played their best game and the Swans played their worst? The only condescending comment I made to you was in response to you once again bringing up COLA. All I was trying to do by commenting about the Swans being the best all year, was to find out if you believed that. But you clearly took it the wrong way and then chose to sink the boot in once more. Real credible as a guru writer.

Brisbane fell apart bcos they had players age dramatically The voss crash and bash style that Scott and Johnson and Co played caught up with them save 1998 that squad played in finals from 1996 to 2004 And would've gone close in 1999 if Martyn's hit on Black behind play hadn't happened In 2003 at the height of their success Brisbane had 6 (a third of a team) of their 1st round picks on other lists Go home still occurred then

Strange Natalie, If in your words: ' You are not telling me anything I don’t already know……' Why do you keep disputing it, or attempting condescending swipes in response to it? One with sense, would think, quit while I am way behind............ Am I to assume you have no sense?

JRod, You are incorrect. Those other clubs did not use Leading Teams. They may have used other consultancy groups but again, ask yourself, who have been the most dominant teams of the last decade? It isn't rocket science. Success breeds success. Leading Teams have proven to be successful. Hawthorn have a strong culture as a result of the work Clarko and Leading Teams did throughout the rebuilding phase of 2005-2008. Look where they are today? There isn't anything fake about me. I say it how it is, I am congruent with who I am. Being congruent is a key tool in selling and yes, it is one of the reasons why I am a successful business women. Unlike most people who hide behind names or letters or acronyms, I am who I am. My organisation has an incredibly strong culture and people enjoy working for my company because of that. No, I wouldn't leave what I do for more money, because believe it or not I have found something that I enjoy doing and I wouldn't change that for anything. Particularly when 9.8% on top of what I currently earn means nothing to me because of the people I work with, the strong culture of my company and the satisfaction of seeing happy repeat customers. And 9.8% really is three fifths of stuff all. If someone tried to persuade me for 200% of what I am on now, then maybe I could retire!! Your speculating, as with every other COLA hater, that it is not spread across the team. You can't prove they stockpile it so don't say. It's a lie at best. It's calling the Swans cheats which really lowers your credibility. Not that it can get much lower after some of the baseless comments you have thrown around in this thread. Players who cannot get a game at a club, are not poached. They spoke to their managers to see what they could get and the Swans picked them up. Those deals were not decided by COLA. Complete and utter rubbish. They are everyday deals that every club does. The Swans received 97 votes across the club....more than your Hawks. You can make out as if it was all to do with previous Hawks players, or you can analyse it for what it was. A great effort by current Swans players. Buddy aside. How many times did he finish second in a Brownlow count prior to coming to the Swans? The Swans of 2012 was the most underrated team of the year, touted to not even make the 8. This is why I am telling you that you are condensing 32 seasons into 2 seasons. You are p!ssed off that the Swans got Buddy and Tippett in consecutive years and you cannot get passed that. Did Brisbane fall apart after 2004? Is it not a fact that they quite literally fell to pieces? Did they recruit well to stay a float? Why are they now an image of their former self? Did Hawthorn fall apart after 2008? Are they not still at the top of their game? Did they recruit well to stay afloat? Why are they still so strong? Brilliant list management, brilliant recruiting, strong culture. Brisbane had none of this. They were poorly run. Don't enter into a discussion with someone if you are not prepared to look at it from both sides.

OMG Pleeeeaaassseeee Pleeeeaaassseeee Pleeeeaaassseeee. This is my last post You left out the saints, north melbourne, brisbane and probably several other clubs who used leading teams. If they didn't use it they used someone who does the same thing. Team driven culture consultants are not unqie. They are a dime a dozen everyone uses them. These things are self selective who stays. Those who win think its because of something and those who dont move on because it didn't work for them. Those who win praise its results - those who dont you never hear about. Its called success bias, a term you have no doubt heard of in your career as a "business woman". I could tell you what I do as well to give myself fake cred but I wont. Yes culture is important but so is money. Would you leave your job as a "business woman" for 15% extra doing the same thing? They play most players nothing extra for COLA so those big names they do pay more its 20%. Most people would leave their jobs for that. Kennedy played something like 10 of the last 12 available games he was at our club (I haven't gone back and checked for this exercide and I know you dont do research but this is ~ correct but may not be 100%), he was offerred a contract and the club wanted him to stay. You poached him with a three year deal at double the money!! Same with Mcglyn and Buddy. Poached requird players. Within the rules but I dont like the rules that are set up for Sydney to stay near the top. "Your crushing 32 years of history into the past two seasons." Hmmm. I went back to 1983. How far should I go?? Buddy got 22 votes, Kennedy 21 Mclyn 3rd on 12 votes (equal with parker who also got 12). Hannerbury got 11. Yet again you show you have no clue. What is my conspiracy theory? Sydney have COLA and thats why they stay at the top of the ladder? Its not the culture thats the conspiracy theory??? Evidence suggest other teams find it hard to sustain and your culture is hardly unique so I think its been COLA. Thats a logical conclusion not a consiracy theory. Which other team has bought one forward as good a Lockett/Hall or Buddy in their prime over the last 20 years? Just please name a club who poached 1 half as good as either of those three...... You can't. Because clubs dont let them go unless they financially cannot compete. "Sides like Brisbane fell apart when their COLA ended because they didn’t know how to run a club" Pleeeaaassseeeeee. They won 3 flags in a row. They did it reasonably well (with COLA assistance) I thought. You think four premierships would have proven they could run a club? "get over the issues you have with a club that you so glaringly know and understand very little about" Please stop talking to yourself.

JRod Your saying stuff to suit yourself and your argument and showing a lack of knowledge of anything but your own club. Leading Teams has not been "through" every club. They approached all clubs and only a few decided to use them. Sydney, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Geelong are the only ones to have stuck with them. Carlton wanted to but Malthouse screwed the relationship when he turned up at the Blues. Funnily enough, which clubs have won all the flags since 2002? Bar WC and one from Port.....you guessed it. See a pattern emerging between culture and success? I'm a business woman.....I know all about culture, strong culture, and what it breeds. Challenge me as much as you like. As for Kennedy and McGlynn, you couldn't find a place for them in your side. Don't tell us it had anything to do with contracts. You had no spot for them, the Swans did. Same with Mattner, Richards, Mumford, these guys were not poached, they were unwanted and the Swans saw ability in them. Your crushing 32 years of history into the past two seasons. Your blanking everything out that happened prior to 2012 just to suit yourself. Like the fact that Kennedy and McGlynn came to the club in 2009. It was 5 years ago!!! Get over it. Nothing Hawthorn did has made them the amazing players they are now, nor did the three fifths of stuff all that they get paid on top of their salary. Hard work and determination is the reason why they are now in the best at the Swans. Oh and as for those Brownlow getters, Hannebery, Parker, they played for the Hawks did they? Keep bending the argument to suit your conspiracy theory. Sides like Brisbane fell apart when their COLA ended because they didn't know how to run a club. They recruited poorly and had poor list management. Sydney has a history of brilliant list management and brilliant recruiting. Have you ever heard of being humble in victory? Go and have a beer a celebrate the stunning back to back grand final win you just saw and build and bridge and get over the issues you have with a club that you so glaringly know and understand very little about.

I'll address you all Don Love sport. Still Angry Sydney poached a favourite sons son and grandson when we offered him a contract and forced us to trade. Likewise Buddy. We couldnt match but wanted to keep him. We even offerred McGlyn a contract. The top three brownlow vote getters for the swans were ex hawks...... So yes I am angry - but not at sport - I love sport - just the swans and those who don't accept COLA is the reason for their success have rocks in their head (in my opinion) Natalie Pleeeeaaassseeee. Leading teams went through every club in the AFL. Not really unique and subpar to what most clubs would have in place now yet most of those teams can't compete with Sydney. I wonder what the secret sauce is. Oh yeah - its "bloods" culture... Pleeeeaaassseeee COLA would absolutely still be there if Buddy and Tippet weren't recruited. It was the icing on the cake - just as Brisbanes third premiership was for them or hawthorn making 7 GF's in a row. Inequity's stay until things go to far and everyone else rallys. Sydney's record has been great, I dont diagree with you on that I diagree with WHY. They haven't rebuilt as they have been good at developing support players and poaching stars. Other clubs simply have had no chance to poach stars consistently and not feel pain elsewhere in the list. If you think that is culture, again, you have rocks in your head. Brisbane had great "culture" and so did the Hawks who reached 7GF's in a row and 8/9 if you add 1991 but the AFL leveled the system after that (see below). Turns out it wasn't culture for either club.... Malcheski is the start of the Buddy/Tippet/COLA driven squeeze and you will see how people bought into the money as much as the culture and leave when the money disapears. Cats/Hawks in this era have done it for a while now due to good systems and process which is why they, and not Sydney, should have their achievements admired. Sydney have done it with money first and foremost. TD Doesn't mean I am smarter just didn't like the personal comments like Champ and the other comments from Nat about other peoples intelligence here for daring to have a different opinion. Typically arrogant sydneysider stuff and I dont accept that type of comment. Hawks of 1983-1991 (and even 1971-1991 you could argue) were driven by having the best drafting zones of all clubs - an unfair advantage. The afl levelled it with the draft and Hawthorn fell away. They didn't dominate because of culture. I read that in the Hidge/Ball/Judd superdraft the hawks would have had all three under that system. Era's like that, the Lions and now the Swans are nigh on impossible without some sort of advantage to "rig the system". Cats and Hawks seem to be very unique and certainly without advantage in salary cap drafting etc (OK - the Cats did better than any club by a margin from father son but I have no issue with romance like that in the game) Both clubs have done very well to beat the System. Thats the system that forces all clubs into cycles, except Sydney due to their COLA thus your record since 1996. Sydney is now going to feel a worse cycle because of Buddy/Tippet/Cola disapearing all coming onto them in one hit. No other club will feel such an upcoming crunch. 2015 they are a chance but past then they are gonners - I expect similar than Brisbane or Hawthorn faired after they lost their advantages - both those clubs thought they had magic when they won consistently but in reality just had an unfair advantage. When you have that advantage and lose it you are toast most likely. Thats what history says. Its like a business that has no competition then lots of competition. Inevitably they have rested on laurels somewhere and would have been hardr and tougher if things were harder. They usually take years to find themselves and be able to legitimately compete with the business that has done it hard for a long time. That is Sydney 2016/7 onwards. Sydney will be a bottom four side come 2018/9 in my view and struggle for at least a decade theron as they wont be able to just bring in a Lockett/Hall/Tippet or Franklin to fix everything.

Does that mean you are smarter - where was the hawks culture after they beat west coast in 1991 - the went south for about 10 years - and after being a preliminary finalist in 01 didn't fire a shot again until 08 - and 08 to 12 - what happened - its the nature of a draft that parity occurs - but as you are very smart then you would know that

JRod You know nothing about the Swans history. The Swans culture, the Bloods Culture, was developed in 2002. What happened in Roos next season as coach? They upset Port in the QF and then lost to the eventual 3 time premiers in a prelim. 04 they kept building and 05/06 is history. Are you thick? Prior to Roos taking over in 02, Eade had all but destroyed the players faith in him. The club was looking for direction. Roos and Leading Teams provided it. Read the book. COLA was in place long before this, some suggest as far back as 1992, although in a different form. You may recall that prior to 96, they had to rebuild from a 26 match losing streak in 92/93. Since 96 they have missed the finals 3 times. 4 grand final visits since the culture was introduced 12 years ago, 2 from 2. The most hilarious thing you have said above is that COLA would have still been there if they didn't recruit Buddy and Tippett......have a little think about what you have just said. That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Are you telling me it is ok for the Swans to recruit anyone else other than these two. I want the stuff that you are on.

You are not telling me anything I don't already know...... It doesn't hurt, it makes us stronger

Natalie, it seems your myopic vision is making undermining you once more, for, I have said on more than one occasion, I thought Sydney were the best team all year Which must burn in 'fans' like you even more with how meekly your team imploded on the biggest stage The worse thing was how your men cowered in the face of real physical pressure..... Handbags...........anyone? :)

He is 30. He'd have to be a pretty special player to keep improving now...

You are a strange unit JRod. Any reason for such anger? Do you enjoy sport?