The Socceroos need fanatical fans to succeed

I will say in Rick defence. If someone like Elyse Perry has a potential to be a great Cricketer and great footballer despite an even less overlapping in skills in Cricket compared to other football codes. There's no reason why they aren't potentially good footballers who decided to play AFL or Rugby couldn't have been great football players especially if htey spent the same amount of time furnishing their skills on Football as a kid instead. Yes they don't have the ability to control a ball with their feet but in a parallel universe, if they had they apply the same mental discipline and determination to succeed in AFL to football maybe they would have. For example an alternative question. What if, Bradman instead of practicisng everyday hitting a golf ball with a stump when he was young developing his technical skills in cricket, used his same bloody minded determination in juggling a football everyday instead. Perhaps he would have been a champion football player despite the fact that he has no skills in cricket that is transferable to football. It's not so much that champion AFL or Rugby or Cricket players have skilled transferable to football but rather players with champion mentality to practice every day honing their skills are doing that with other sports rather than football

What a load of waffle.

conditioning.... A similar reason why very very very few English footballers play abroad. And as for glib - probably :lol: I immediately recall a forward venture of my own resulting in a behind... some say I robbed us of the win; some say I earnt us the draw.... who knows the real answer??

Bondy - excellent question - - well, not really - - but, perhaps a better question than you intended. Let's put it this way - why do more AFL players not pursue a potentially lucrative career as a kicker in the NFL rather than - in the cases of Darren Bennett, Sav Rocca and Ben Graham - leaving it as a post AFL retirement venture?? Is it the lack of financial security due the NFL labour market and contract system? Is it that the lack of general field play is not a sufficient lure for highly competitive players? We've seen NRL players seek alternate challenges - both in the AFL and now Jarrad Hayne over in with the NFL. The NFL player seems more prone to wandering though. Many having moved to RU perhaps for the lure of international and WC honours? Obviously RL and RU have more transferable skills. I do suspect that the AFL mentality is very strong around club/team and seeking premiership success. The dismantling of Rep footy (SoO) has ensured that beyond the individual honours - that the elusive premiership is the be all and end all. In NRL for example - SoO success is probably rated more highly than club success - certainly SoO is generally rated above 'Kangaroos' international success. Once this is achieved then the lure of a club 'flag' may only be so great. And players seek other challenges. The game play itself can seem pretty mundane in it's limited repetitiveness. A guy like Karmichael Hunt isn't going back to RL post AFL, going to RU instead largely because he had to admit his body just wasn't right for the running required in AFL. Folau likewise went to RU instead of back to RL. So - given the conditioning of AFL types - were a kid on the soccer and footy radar as a youngster then such as a Brad Green in his days with Melbourne - would, had the A-League been around in his early day - a decent offer be considered to be put to him to switch? and would someone like that contemplate it seriously?

Perry Why dont aussie rules players come across to football and go up against the likes of Ronaldo or Messi though ,the biggest stage of all, thats when you know when you're truly great, but they never try this endeavour .

ciudadmarron - 100% correct. Although - a little glib on the 'all you need is a clean possession inside the 50...to score'. I wish! Let alone to kick the ruddy thing straight (even if a mark 20m out directly in front). I share your confusion about the soccer fans who seem unable to discern the skills/tactics of Aust Footy. However -that said - going back about 35 years ago it did tend to be a grab it and bomb it straight down the line style of game. A lot of more expansive thinking has come since then and no doubt borrowed from other sports along with the greater introspection via expanded coaching panels and video/computer analysis. I suspect that the absence of off side makes it a little harder to discern the tactics at play - especially for those limited to viewing via TV as that does AFL very little justice. The tactics are at play 60-70 metres away from the ball in many cases. The key difference between soccer and footy is that good footy players need to have good hands (the co-ordination and the wonderful mix of firm but soft). Technically a kid who players both soccer and basketball has pretty well the skills matrix required. No certainty he'll be any good.

Perry, absolutely. It was Sydney after all. And my point was, rob's brother is hardly reflective either, is it. Here's the thing Perry - no matter the standard, in Aussie Rules all you need is a clean possession inside the 50 (including a scrap from out of the pack) to score. I totally agree that the tactics of today are very different to what they used to be and are far more technical and based on presses etc. Have the scores gone down? Not sure on that one... might be interesting to see if it is indeed harder to score. I wouldn't be surprised if they were. What you describe about good and bad players is entirely true of football as well. The space might be different but this does not make it harder. The pockets as they were are deeper on a football field, aren't they! The offside trap is a huge tactical part of the game. I maintain that unlocking that is far more difficult than a finding a forward on a lead - or not, and profiting from the scraps. but fwiw I have always been puzzled by football fans who sneer at aussie rules for being a mindless crash and bash sport. It has far more similarities with football than the other codes in terms of tactics and patiently or incisively moving the ball into scoring positions to my mind.

ciudadmarron - Just a note - what you describe as playing Aussie Rules sounds more like making up the numbers in an ordinary side probably in an ordinary league. It's like me judging baseball on a handful of games in a summer league for my Uni years ago with a cricketers understanding of bat/ball sports. Certainly though - unlocking a defence in Aust Footy is very different but as at the top level where muddy cricket pitches no longer exist in the centre (of most) grounds - the capacity for basketball style defence of all players pushing into the oppositions forward half is making it far harder to unlock a defence than ever before. Funny little things like that - improve the quality of the field and you don't just have nicer looking green grass for more of the year!! Re standing around - poor players do that, wait for the ball to come into their zone and become reactive to that. Good players will be constantly moving, and will push variously high, or wide, to attack the ball from different angles and to 'create space'. The angles and space are very different between a rectangular field (with off side) and an oval field (with no off side). I do think too - the 3 D argument is mainly used with respect to the Rugby types who have little comprehension of a 3 D game environment.

Uncle Junior - ah gee - mental toughness. Be careful about being superficially judgemental. The capacity to leave home to another state, another country, the other side of the world, a non-English speaking country etc etc. That's all well and good and good on the kids/families who take on that challenge/adventure. And even in the limited world of the AFL the examples of Irish (Gaelic converts) and US (basketball converts) has seen only a small number succeed and mental toughness (via professional discipline, narrow focus, determination etc) is a key no doubt. There can be many elements to what makes that doable let alone attractive for any individual. Not purely mental toughness. Perhaps ailing parents/family members come into the equation - it's not mentally weak to put family first. It may be mental toughness to decide that the potential to earn multiple millions in a more international sport isn't nearly as important as family and a life balance associated with that. Money and global fame isn't everything. I do think that you need to respect the choices made by many athletes. Whether they are based in Florida, Munich, Tokyo or Perth. Mental toughness is more than stamps in their passport or ,000's in their pay-cheque. Mental toughness is really adopting strong personal (professional) disciplines. What is key is the support mechanisms around that - whether including a family move interstate/overseas, or the club that has a well developed program to bring the 'kids' into. In many cases mental toughness is shown by the kids who, along with their parents, might be travelling 6-8 hour round trips from places like Mildura to Bendigo or Orbost to Traralgon so their kids can play in the elite junior pathways of sports such as footy, cricket, tennis or whatever else requires that. In some cases a move overseas to be local to the training hub would be an easier option than staying at home!!

It may have been the way we were but the future of the code in Australia lies with the way the supporters like the game. You will see a change in the not to distant future, mark my words Ben.

Well put Waz - still the game has to get you off your feet, it has to move you. They play because we come.

Very good question, Bondy. The mental toughness required to succeed at global level in sports like athletics, basketball, football can never be compared to succeeding in Australia. Many players from sports only played in Australia get homesick when they have to move to another state in Australia and they come back as soon as they can. It's unlikely they'd ever cope with travelling to a foreign country, new language, new culture and be successful. Kewell and Emerton went to Leeds on their own aged 15. They wouldn't have been welcomed with open arms by the locals whom they competed against for professional contracts. To succeed like that takes real mental toughness. So, regardless of athletic ability & technical ability, do Rules, League and cricketers have this type of mental toughness? If they can't cope with living interstate, they'd never cope with living overseas.

Rick I enjoy your thought processes to sports although I dont necessarily understand most of them , but what I can't understand is with say a Slater or Ablett why would they bother with AFL or NRL where they're heavily restricted to almost territorial sectors within Australia . I just wonder with a Salter or Ablett would they have asked themselves could they have represented my country "properly" in a truly national and global game and played on all continents like T Cahill and earned $30 -$60 million a year like Ronaldo or Messi .. Food for thought ...

"Another lecture from Lord Rick… his infallible understanding of sport is once again shared with us…. And dare anyone disagree … It's a shame you opened with this line. "Much of what you say makes sense" I have just taken a screen shot of this for future reference. :) I'd say it's pretty obvious we don't get along or agree on much..but that's fine. This topic has somehow spawned into an interesting debate and I dare say you, me and a few others have stimulated this debate. That's what this site is all about and I'll continue to write opinion here that some may not like in order to stimulate such debate. For the record, I agree with a lot of what you have said. "Football had lost none of these players were they think they would have lost between 60 & 70 percent prior to programs being put in." I don't believe this though and I think I have said enough on the matter.

I agree with you UJ though the main thrust of the article I felt was the relationship between countries playing strength and their support. For what its worth now is an excellent time to be following football in Australia because the type of support is changing. Given the games position in the broader sporting landscape paying supporters are drawn to the game (as well as by the standard of football) because of the different way we support 'your' team. The selling of the code by FFA is to a large extent based upon the atmosphere created by clubs like Liverpool during their recent visit (that game had an impact greater than just the attendance figures), Football supporters know this (can't tell me WSW, MV or SC don't enjoy this type of support). Its the new supporter that needs to embrace this. Just look at other sports in Oz and tell me which sport creates as good or better an atmosphere as football. As to the relationship in football between atmosphere and competitive home results I think there are other variables that are more significant than home support.

i think england's issues start from the fact that kids don't have a proper space to kick a ball around because the tory scum sold all the playing fields back in the 80's.

very interesting! i would bet that oz did the same in the period leading up to the 2000 olympics.

For a second I watched the uzbeki drums. They were making some noise. Then I looked around at the crowd spread thinly around the rest of the joint. You need closeness. You need people cheek by jowl.

You know this is a topic near to my heart, and I am a bemoaner, AR, so I won't go nuts, or remind you of some of the other failings of the place beyond the atmosphere inside the game. I went to some of the games at homebush for the Asian Cup. I was also impressed by what some of the supporters of other nations could do in it with much smaller crowds. However, they weren't supporting Australia, the atmosphere for which WAS still very very dull, with bigger crowds. And that is who will use it. Australians, supporting Australian teams, for regular league fixtures, not once or twice in a lifetime opportunities in do or die football situations.

An omission - actually for 2010 the age break down organised stats are there too. For soccer the good news being that the 15-24 age bracket for organised comprised 80% of that age bracket up from just 61% in 2006. That's the only way to build quality. FYI - the Aust Footy went up from 82% to 85%. But - that's close enough to call steady on this sort of thing.