Following on from Part 1, it is important in terms of the expansion debate to understand why North Queensland and Gold Coast failed.
It wasn’t necessarily the fact that they were regional teams, but rather the way the new teams were introduced.
Gold Coast notoriously had relatively high ticket prices based on the fact they were playing out of a new stadium at Robina and the state government were looking to recoup their investment. Clive Palmer was also loathe to reduce prices because he felt the fans were watching a “high quality entertainment product” and should pay accordingly.
This suppressed the size of the initial crowds to the point where they were underwhelming. This issue was then exacerbated by a reductionist accounting-based decision to only lease one stand and restrict the capacity to 5000. The result being that crowds fell even further.
To revisit my earlier piece, even today this Melbourne Victory founding member recalls that tickets prices were not only set at an economical price but that the administrators of the time had the wit to offer discounts for the initial home games of the inaugural season at the old Olympic park.
An even greater example is when the currently maligned Nathan Tinkler took charge of the Newcastle Jets. Confident in his mining boom backed wealth he immediately lowered and subsidised season ticket prices, leading to an upsurge in membership numbers.
This is despite the fact that he would have been experiencing an accounting loss in this specific business area.
Looking toward the current controversies surrounding Tinkler and his administration of the Jets, now that his business empire is under pressure, the one facet of the club that is used as a retort is the healthy size of the 10,000 strong membership base.
Furthermore, it is the size and resilience of that membership base that might just make the difference as to whether the FFA would be able to politically justify pulling plug on the Jets if Tinkler relinquishes his ownership or loses the license.
The point is that getting people through the door and engaged in the live experience from the outset is the most vital aspect. Ticket pricing needs to be seen and used as a form of investment as it recoups the benefits in other areas.
The Asian Cup is fresh in the memories of readers. The AFC no doubt makes most of the money from the broadcast rights but the strategy of combining this with highly cheap ticket prices, which attracted people into the stadiums, was a good mix.
The sight of respectably full to packed boutique stadiums in broadcast feeds and highlight reels enhance the presentation of the product being broadcast.
In expanding the national competition the FFA should look to ‘bottom-up’ sources to combine with a ‘top-down’ mindset that is in vogue today, which involves financial stability via broadcast and top-end sponsorship revenue.
An example of the bottom-up approach is allowing actual fan and small-business involvement.
The bid for a Canberra team had this mix but the FFA were hesitant on the idea of a Canberra-based team. Though whether an A-League team introduced into Canberra would have been successful or not is hypothetical, and we’ll never know the answer.
Nevertheless, I believe that it was well placed to being successful and it was a mistake to overlook the bid. The Canberra bid was based on long-term promotion within the community and signing up pre-members, and was an excellent case study in how bids for teams should be run.
This can be done through a variety of ways like partial ownership and board representation through supporters and small business trusts. This is a form of crowdsourcing that can be utilised for further revenue raising in the future – outside of mere season ticket sales.
The two approaches when combined together make for a good aggregate impact.
A good way to illustrate the point was the A-League’s growth in Sydney over the past few years.
On the Sydney FC side of the spectrum there was some excellent ‘top-down’ mainstream media and public interest generated by the signing of Alessandro Del Piero. On the other side, Western Sydney were working from the ‘ground-up’ model based largely on fan and community engagement.
The result was that by season’s end both clubs had generated excellent mainstream media and public interest in the A-League and in the whole of Sydney. Since that time the A-League in Sydney has been stronger for it.
It is not too outrageous to suggest that the derby between the two teams is now a notable fixture on the Sydney sporting calendar and embedded in the sporting fabric of the city.
Chris
Guest
Simple TV. Revenue and the next deal will be even bigger making ALL clubs sustainable which in turn fuels investment and growth . The Acquisition of Heart by. Man City for one indicates that overseas investors view our league as a growth one. And bring big money into football for the FIRST time ever in this country. Off field we have training facilities unmatched ever in this country. Memberships larger than ever. On line hits larger than ever. As I have said already .
j binnie
Guest
Chris - Not doubting what you are saying about past Jets and CCM figures, and how they were attained . I have already said we have a unique league though I suspect my meaning of "unique" 'differs from yours.You say I must look at the league as a whole and getting better crowds but that is exactly my point,our crowds are not getting bigger and I don't really understand how you are measuring "growth" It is easy to say the league is growing but would like you to tell me where,for it is most certainly not in crowds for Victory (+6500), Adelaide(+3350) and WSW (+4000) are the only franchises showing significant growth as measured at the gates.compared to last season.Now I know there can be many differing reasons given for this but the important thing to me is to come up with a plan to assist the others to do likewise. If that means the subsidising of those clubs to acquire an "ADP marquee" then so be it. Cheers jb
Chris
Guest
It wasn't long ago that Newcastle had some of the best crowds in the league as well as memberships etc CCM have never had great crowds but good for the size of the region and there business model focused on developing players and on selling which they have been the best at even though they have had poor crowds. Our league is unique in many ways and you need to look at the league as whole and as football gets more and more air time better and better crowds the league as whole grows from the top to the bottom.
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Salary Cap prevents revenue from having too much of an impact, large teams can elicit a competitive advantage in terms of marquees they can afford but we won't end up with an EPL or La Liga type situation Indeed the Salary cap is vital as it prevents an increase in revenue from simply inflating player wages to the detriment of investment in other areas of the games There's a big difference between crowds everywhere, eg all leagues in the world. It's not a major issue as long as all the teams are viable. It's OK if we think in terms of metropolitan aggregates, eg in Melbourne and Sydney there are about 20-30,000 people attending games hosted by two teams. The spread isn't even but this is OK if there is a narrative and point of difference and if we look at it at a broader sports term it is good in terms of the Melbourne sports market that a football team like MVFC has similar season ticket/membership numbers to AFL teams based in the same city and then the other team (Melbourne City) are smaller but they are linked to a large international sporting group so bring in different benefits outside of the size of their fanbase. CCM's crowd of 7700 doesen't seem too far off some NRL crowds, say like the Bears who I think were based in the same area of Cornulla in North Sydney
j binnie
Guest
Chris- at this point in time you cannot compare other leagues "all over the world" with our HAL. What you go on to say may well be correct but where else does a "top' league consist of 10 teams not to mention the vastness of the country or the differentials in population distribution.You do realise if Arsenal were to be playing Moscow Torpedo that would be the equivalent of Perth playing Sydney FC only difference being the population,with cities of 8-12 millions in close proximity involved, as against 3.5 and 1.5 millions in our case. We all know that the game in this country is at a level never before acheived but we are discussing how the present "differences" between our top and bottom clubs can be improved and then on to the next step of expansion,not for expansion's sake but as you say because the proper business models have been set up and seen to be working.. Cheers jb
Chris
Guest
Happens in every league in the world EPL the big clubs have stadiums of 50000.+ , Bundesliga , serie A, La. Liga, Belgium league in fact every league all over the world has big clubs pulling full houses and the smaller clubs attracting much smaller. It's not about the attendances as the sole indicator of how successful a club can be it is the business model and how well the club is run which makes the difference. A league is very young and many mistakes have been made . The key is too learn from them to grow and flourish the league. Football has never been in a better space in this country .
j binnie
Guest
Sorry Silva should read Villa. jb
j binnie
Guest
NUFCMVFC -Your double barrelled article has been well put together with the emphasis leaning towards creating logistical business interest and fan participation as the way to go. .As I have said in previous comments the FFA have a huge problem on their hands with a 10 team competition where the "top" team ,Victory, is pulling an average home crowd of 27,300, and the "bottom " club CCM is only drawing 7,700. One does not have to be Einstein to work out that if this is allowded to continue unabated we will have a "joke" of a competition where money will begin to directly affect results Their,the FFA's, initial reaction to create "derby" games is well intended but it should be pointed out that realistically "derby games" can cheat. the statistical figures into believing a franchise is doing well. Let me explain that. Victory's average home gate when the derby gates are removed drops to 23,675 not what one would say a huge drop. However if we do the same exercise with the other Melbourne identity City, their average gate drops from 11,300 to 9,650, but in City's figures another calculation can add another drop,for in their first 2 games with their high profile player playing, they "pulled "two "over five figure" crowds and if we eliminate that influence from their "gates" their average over 7 matches drops further to 8,300. These occurrences point to 2 thimgs , (1) Derby games do help to create interest and of course help fill the coffers, especially of the "lesser" of the two participants (2) The ADP experiment (well documented) and the short lived Silva visit did prove that well credentialled marquees will put bums on seats not only at their home games but all around the country If this is accepted as a worthwhile argument surely the procurement of really worthwhile marquees ,especially to the "lower" clubs,aided and abetted by the FFA would,in the short term,be a far better course of action to popularise the game across the country than the creation of "new" franchises which may or may not bear fruit. At this point in time ,game 92 of the season, our average gate for all games is standing at 0.75% above last year's total which is a far cry from the FFA's forecast of 8%, so something isn't working.That is the root of the real problem. Keep up the good work .Cheers jb
asanchez
Roar Guru
I realise we need another 2 teams in the A-league, as it'll get stale over time. But while I do agree that we need 2 new teams, I also think we need to get the existing 10 teams right, for numerous issues. The Nix are a great example, for me they should stay in the A-league, they're managed well by their new owners, they've now got a good coach who knows how to put a decent squad together, but they just need a small boutique home ground to play out of. The Hutt Rec ground where they've been playing, although being a temporary structure, looks and sounds a treat on TV. I'm sure the players enjoy playing there. They need to work with government over there to get something like that built in future. The AFC issue I think is overstated and I reckon they'll be allowed to play in the A-league for years to come. The Jets are a different issue all together, and while I don't agree with what Tinkler did with sacking those players, I actually think he can now keep going at the Jets, and he can now help to turn that club around, at least until he finds a buyer. But regardless, with Tinkler or without him, I think the Jets are here to stay both in Newcastle and in the A-league. The Mariners are the biggest current problem child for me, and they've gone downhill massively with Charlesworth at the helm. For me he's been in the papers way too often, and should stick to talking in the boardroom, where he can actually work on garnering more sponsorship and corporate support, when he's in Australia that is. Gosford is the smallest population centre in the league, that's reality, but I think if they can get crowds of at least 8000-9000 per game, they'll be fine. If not, and they go belly up, I'm sure the FFA could give a new license to Wollongong, and they'd get at least those crowds if not more from day 1. Which brings me to my realistic expansion options. For me we can't go back into Queensland until Townsville is ready again, forget the Gold Coast. Which leaves a 3rd club in Sydney and probably a Canberra or a 3rd club in Victoria as the 12th team. If done properly, a 3rd team in Melbourne can be a success if it's based in either the western suburbs or the South East or even in Geelong. Apart from those options I think a 2nd NZ side in Auckland, once the Nix future is sorted out, is a very good idea. A Wellington v Auckland derby would be a great proposition and a great addition to the league.
Kit
Guest
"Also Adelaide would comfortably be able to back a second A League team,even if (Adelaide United) do loose a few supporters to to begin with,the derby effect will in turn generate interest among the Adelaide public which will then boost interest and numbers for both clubs.The same way when Sydney and Melbourne added a second team." Speaking as an Adelaide fan, I think this is unrealistic for the short to medium term. Based off our crowd figures of late, I don't think there's enough underlying interest to justify a second side at the moment unless said side were willing and/or happy to operate to crowds much lower that what we've seen so far Long-term? Maybe, but there's a lot of questions related to this that need answering in the meantime. Where does to financial capital come from? Who gets the license (new franchise or, say, Adelaide City?). Just because it worked in Sydney and Melbourne, doesn't mean it'll work here.
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
Basically if there is a supporters or small-business trusts involved it means there is a network of fans and small business that can be tapped for $, not just for ticket sales. Meaning costs and losses for rich benefactors are minimised Atm fans are merely seen as season ticket holders. Giving them some influence may help with membership retention, plus it means they are more likely to stick around and be engaged during economic downturns There is a bit of an issue with the FFA though, they tend to tax the owners quite a bit, eg after the MVFC vs Liverpool game was as big if not a bigger event than All-Stars versus Man Utd I recall an article later about how if any A-Legue teams bring out premium Euro teams they'll have to pay the FFA a major cut. There are no opportunities for major funding and they are put at major disadvantage, eg can't get sponsors that clash with league sponsors etc Basically a big problem where FFA wants to socialise ALL the profits and privatise as much losses as possible and pass it on to the owners and give them limited control over intellectual property and websites for example which stifles innovation Socialisation in sports business actually makes a lot of sense, eg compare the NBA, NFL and American sports ironically to European Sports, American leagues are much more competitive, financially healthy and there are cost controls in place but the FFA haven't quite got the optimum mix Not surprising then that owners got agitated and someone like Clive became their spokesperson. He raised some good issues though people don't like him Notice that it was only to marginalise him that the FFA gave up some power? Plus the increased TV revenue covering all the base salary cap was a good thing so we have headed in the right direction. The FFA seem to operate at a lag though and is it really that surprising they now struggle to find backers for teams They only seem to put good football practice in place when really pushed, eg WS was actually set up half properly and look at the result
NUFCMVFC
Roar Guru
As for North Queensland, being a regional area in particular they would have done well if a mix of top end sponsorship and benefactor was mixed in with robust community involvement, basically have supporters partly own the club, if people are socially attached to it they will fork out. Same with small Business, if they are getting lots more revenue etc because of fans they will get on board, eg I recall a few years back when there was some crowd issues with WSW confronting a SFC fan as some Ribs joint, the media story was inclined to be critical but all the soundbites had local small business owners defending WSW fans This may seem odd as normally small business don't like drunken ruffians milling around vandalising property, but it illuminated firstly that football fans weren't really a major problem but Parramatta small business owners were presumably getting a substantial boost in income due the a major summer based activity in the area that didn't occur before when it was just the Eels playing in winter There was some move towards this at the end to getting fans and small business involved but it was too late and part of it was politics, eg half the reason we had these teams put in was to support the WC bid and NQ was subsidised for a season for that same reason I think In terms of expansion, they have to adapt away from a rich benefactor plus top-end sponsorship and need to look at how leagues in Europe are several tiers deep. top end broadcast and sponsorship interest only lies in the top leagues, maybe second if we consider English Championship, yet leagues and teams have been able to survive for a very long time because the teams are social hubs This is why cheap ticket pricing at the offset is important, there may be an initial financial loss but you have to get people in the door in the first place, lost the "entertainment product" mentality and turn the games into a social event. This means a return in time because people get hooked to the "live fix" which as we can see in the EPL meant fans are willing to put up with massive hikes in prices during the EPL era. There is a generational time-bomb though because the youth demographic have grown up with EPL being a TV event at the pub with mates and won't be willing to pay the exorbitant cost. For my part I think in the interests of geographic spread there needs to be a North Queensland team, it can work although may cut it fine. Hopefully the next incarnation has a better name and colour scheme than Fury ughh
Mr Football
Roar Rookie
I strongly believe that Wollongong and Canberra should be the main focus for the next 2 teams to be involved in the A league when it expand to 12 teams,Also Adelaide would comfortably be able to back a second A League team,even if (Adelaide United) do loose a few supporters to to begin with,the derby effect will in turn generate interest among the Adelaide public which will then boost interest and numbers for both clubs.The same way when Sydney and Melbourne added a second team .
LordBrucie
Guest
Expansion should and indeed must happen but I agree with gallop on this one. Support for association football is exaggerated outside the state capitals and for this reason any new teams should be based in the larger cities but not Sydney or Melbourne. There is no real appetite for a team in Canberra, Gold Coast or Townsville and also they are not big enough or in the case of Gold Coast have enough community spirit.
Midfielder
Guest
Canberra already has a RL and RU side ... there is a limit to how many teams a regional centre can support... both RL & RU are struggling for crowds ... Football in such a market would be no different...
Stadia Cooperoz
Guest
The people putting a positive on the Fury's short reign and the Canberra hopefuls seem to be keen but they have to ensure, almost guarantee that they have the local authorities onside, some media support and serious political and corporate support. Rightly or wrongly many cities, governments, regional media etc have an NRL/Rugby Union/AFL mindset and find it hard to back something that may grow and match or surpass their favorites. The enthusiasm for 'Football" and a solid fanbase are not the same as converting the mindset of the town/region and its power brokers. What would back your bid is a fair and long term stadium deal with no ifs and buts, a bi partisan long term support from both major parties. As others have noted above, you can't enter the A-League as a a backer to make money in the short term so anyone who says I'm keen but can't afford to lose a few million IS NOT a serious backer. Clive was a hobby farmer, never a foottball fan QLD had just gained a younger, female Premier with a non Anglo surname. Any aspirants should be sounding her out on what commitment she might give the game beyond Brissy.
Ben of Phnom Penh
Roar Guru
The demise of the Fury was the product of unfortunate timing. They were building a good little base up there with some solid community support however their main financial backer hit some $$$ woes at the same time that Clive was creating chaos further South and some other more strategic markets were looking wobbly. A business model for going forward was developed however the FFA had too many other issues to deal with and hence didn't back it. Unfortunately for the Fury there was no White Knight in the wings. If the same thing happened today they would be fine. Personally I'd love to see the Fury back.
Midfielder
Guest
For me the game changer will be the "Whole of Football Plan" when released sometime this year. Connecting to the player base is IMO the single biggest challenge and were many future fans will come from... What's needed is a workable national domestic competition and the A-League especially after the expansion to 12 teams will be that.
Brendo
Guest
If that is the case you really need to ask how naive were the owners? There was plenty of evidence after a couple of years that the a majority of clubs were not going to make a profit for years in the A-League so any owner entering the league expecting the $4-6M to last more than 2-3 years was living in dream land. And has been mentioned the due diligence from the FFA around this bid must have been non-existent if they allowed a owner model that couldn't sustain two years. I believe this is why FFA have avoided Canberra, although their fan engagement has been fantastic they just lack the big $$$$ backing needed to sustain the club. Of course this may change in a few years if the broadcast deal can reach a level that makes >$1M a rarity rather than the norm.
Towser
Guest
Brendo If I remember wasn't Nth Queenslands demise due entirely to lack of funding,just not enough moolah to keep a professional football club going. Always maintain that if Clive had invested in a football club North of Brisbane instead of South and had employed football people to run the club on all levels( to support his lack of football knowledge) therefore connecting with a very parochial established community( unlike the transient Gold Coast) that this club could have been a goer.