Asian teams in the A-League would be a dystopian future

Towser I see the merit of your option 3. To expand there may be a need to look outside the square and come up with ideas that make the league more viable. The AFL pump vast amounts of money into start up scenarios and give preference picks on their draft system. In Football we can subsidise clubs as you suggest by a marquee infusion or simply by assisting in running costs. Without delving too far into the Gold Cost demise it is worth comparing the Titans current financial problems emanating from the hiring cost of the stadium. The Mayor of the Gold Coast is looking at purchasing the stadium from the State Government and reducing the lease payments. I think one of the gripes of CCM is the cost of leasing Bluetongue. My point is that in both of these scenarios, and probably many others it is not just the cost of players and coaches that become a burden on the franchises but in some cases unrealistic payments to the stadium owners. If increasing the number of competing teams increases TV revenue dramatically to say the $80m a year sum that has been bandied about then venue hire should be negotiated across the board and perhaps the tab picked up by FFA prior to the rest of the funds being distributed. This after all is the largest external component for all the clubs. If the FFA were then to limit their drag on the TV funds the distribution could be 1) hire of venues $15m per annum 2) 12 teams salary cap $4m each $48m 3) FFA $17m a similar amount to their current receipt. The figures have room for adjustment but under this system CCM get an extra $1.7m + a free stadium to play at and if they cannot make that work they deserve to fold. Feel welcome to knock this suggestion or improve on it because there has to be a smarter safer way to go forward.

You look at the interest the AFL has and the money it makes every year and you can see that Australian sport can manage on its own. Considering the A-league is played during the AFL and NRL off season it is not a forgone conclusion that the A-League can increase its fanbase by slowly converting these fans to support the A-league when they have nothing else to support. Just like all good things, these things take time. The league is still a baby in league terms and has already come so far.

AR, thank you for the more civilised response without name-calling. A sign of maturity for the future, I hope. I didn't say I'm in favour of an Asian Super League. Someone pointed out the low TV ratings for matches involving Wellington Phoenix. I merely pointed out that the success of a proposed Asian Super League will be driven by Asian TV ratings. So it's nonsensical to quote data pertaining to Australian TV ratings.

There is an Asian Champions League for this exact reason, Michael.

Punter - on the Roar attendance drop off this is the probably not the right forum thread for a detailed debate on that. It's also worth waiting to see if the dramatic fall of late is a blip or have attendance really hit the 7k mark - tonight will tell us a bit more with unofficial forecasts for the attendance to hit 5,000 but I'm sure the club are hoping for 9,000+ and would normally be disappointed in that. The issues for me as a Roar member are not performances out on the pitch although that's undoubtedly having an impact but there has been no attempt made over the years to engague with and build the supporter base in Brisbane with the net result being core Roar support hasn't grown and the vast majority of supporters are no better than cinema goers, they'll go and see what's on if it's any good but only if there's nothing better to do. As I say not the right place to go into detail of discussion (I could write a whole article on how Roar supporters have been disenfranchised this season) but if this is an issue replicated at other clubs it's not hard to see how we are where we are today. On another post someone said "the growth of our game has out-grown those administering it", that's a phrase that's starting to resonate with me.

Fly to Singapore 9 hours; Fly to HK 11 hours. Seeing the impact the ACL has had on WSW, the A-league would have to expand both the cap and squad sizes for teams to cope with the extensive travel. IMO, the A-League should be kept in country, with no teams outside our national borders. This will maximize junior development, and guarantee a focus on expansion into the last few remaining un-tapped expansion locations (Canberra comes to mind)

"Uncle Junior"...asks: "Are you trying to argue that an Asian Super League for football, would not attract more than $250m/year that the AFL & NRL achieve." Ah, no. Not at all. Never said that. My question was what is the purpose of pointing out those mightily impressive figures? The answer of course is simply so "Uncle Junior" can say - "look at these figures! Soccer in the Asian market is bigger than the AFL or NRL" - as though that is a) somehow in dispute; or b) relevant to this discussion. Arguing for an Asian Superleague, or for the inclusion of Asian teams into the ALeague, is an argument based only on "look how big the TV rights would be!!!" Such an argument is completely divorced from what is best for the ALeague or the sport in Australia, generally. ...as your own club, and the FFA, have pointed out.

We have to entertain the idea that the HAL wil have a formal second tier run at a lower cost/wage basis etc. While some might think well there's more money down the drain, itf you were a new franchise you'd start there or a CCM slipped down the costs would fall accordingly. The giants of the NSL are still out there and playing at levels that match their crowd and financial capacity. So on the basis of say inviting NT, Tassie, and maybe the greater Adelaide Hills region (insert your own cap city examples) you are not just giving smaller centres a gig but the three examples cited are AFL heartland breeding grounds. If there is a strategic code war of any sort the AFL's strengths make it vulnerable too. The biggest state in Oz produces next to nothing while churning out NRL,Rugby and football talent NT is the gateway for the considerable and overhyped Indigenous supply chain. Tassie is like a loyal dog getting the odd scrap of steak and a pat on the head. Its importance to the draft is rated more highly than its token AFL game crowd numbers. Ditto Vic,SA,WA country. But the cost and complexity and the injury attrition rates of AFL make it harder for small towns and make pro teams mega expensive. The AFL is a top end success but a regional and second teiir failure Football has the advantage of several ways of expanding and ihas a relatonship to a bigger food chain. The money from Liverpool etc is not going to FFA as such but it does remind us that soccer per se can draw fans and interest out of season and sell out venues used by other codes in their season. How to harness that power for oz soccer is the question. The WSW need a big domestic season next year as the AFL will back the giants to the hilt.

Punter - This is a multi faceted question to which I don't have all the answers,and like you, can only look at what has happened and then hazard a guess as to why it has happened. Roar have had few good seasons that ,probably due to the on field success they were having, saw their crowds increasing in "average" figures ,from around 10,000 to 15,000,to 13,500, to 12,750 this season so far.You will note they peaked 3 seasons ago and there could be out of the ordinary reasons for that,their unbeaten run creating interest,the "coming "of WSW into the league, and of course the ADP effect causing larger crowds to club home games all across the league. Last year the disasterous start would have caused some drop off,The off field shenanigans wouldn't have helped and the championship run towards the end of the season probably offset what coud have been a larger drop in the average.One doesn't have to speculate as to what has gone wrong this year,everyone has their own ideas!!!. The multi club per city idea you put forward,shows little doubt that the WSW experiment was initially a success and showed Sydney football followers up in a good light,both teams attracting better than fair averages last year (WSW 12,550 and Sydney FC 19,000).Melbourne did not keep pace with that trend Victory attracting 22,000 but Heart only managing 8,500, a figure greatly inflated by a 26,000 home crowd when playing their near city mates.This season these figures have improved Victory sitting at 26,000 while Melb. City are now at 11,000 once again aided and abetted by another bumper home "derby" crowd of 26,500. You may question that last statement but if you take the "derby crowd" influence out of the equation,City's average drops to 9,250 a number on a par with Jets and Wellington With those two major population centres apparently finding it difficult to sustain 2 HAL franchises I would suggest that Brisbane ,Perth and the Wellington/Auckland idea had no chance of acheiving that hope some time in the near future. Punter, you do touch very lightly on something that could be affecting the growth of the league in a more subtle manner and that is in the administration of both the parent body and the franchises themselves,There is some growing evidence that this is an area where our game is not being serviced in a manner that encourages growth on the terraces due to the almost constant barrage of dispute that emanates from these sources.Our league over 6 seasons grew in an extraordinary fashion but there is some evidence that this upward momentum has stalled somewhat and if this is believed then that could be the root cause of any "backsliding" Has our professional game out grown the knowledge of those who are running the show at both top and club levels.?. That to me is a very moot point and one the requires much discussion, Cheers jb

Yes Bondy, with the start of the AFL season & the Essendon saga, I am surprised that the AFL fans are so concerned on A-League expansion.

I think he's the former poster known as Terry .

JB, lets look closely on why some of those other identities have dropped in attendances this year; ROAR, I think this has been done, but i would leave up to people like you, who has more knowledge on the Roar to explain the drop in attendances despite having such good success in recent seasons. JETS, an Iangou said, it's a credit to those still attending after all that has happened to them this year, so what can FFA do here, ensure the Jets fans get the correct administration & you will see a sustainable club & one drawing a pretty decent attendances every game. This is a fairly strong football heartland. CCM, the problem child of the FFA, when you are averaging 9-10K during your championship/successful years, you have problems, you also have an owner, who because of the low attendances, trying to move games into the north of Sydney. So now, you have idenity issues added to a poor season on the field & hence poor crowds. FFA has to accept CCM are never going to crowd pullers, ala GWS with the AFL. Gosford & it's surrounding area are very much a Rugby League town. WSW, they have had a lot of football this year, they have won the ACL this year, however, a poor season in the HAL & until last week has been at the bottom of the league all season. Now living in Sydney & being a SFC & in the northern beaches, in my travels around Sydney, I see a lot more WSW merchandise then any other local team, any code. The only team that can compete is Liverpool surprisingly. So if you cannot see growth here, well you are not looking. Now where is FFA is looking for expansion, I think the FFA are looking at the bigger cities, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane & possibly Perth & Auckland. They all have issues & strong reasons on why we should not expand there, lets not forget the strongest leagues in this country AFL (has 9 Melbourne teams I think in the competition) & NRL (has 8 Sydney teams, I think). Now my knowledge on AFL is minimal & NRL much stronger but not great, but I can assure you not all these city teams are performing as well (off field) as Collingwood (AFL) or Souths (NRL), so why does every expansion team need to meet Melbourne Victory criteria.

Brucie, in all your posts, you provide a real negative view on the A-League expansion, nor do you portray a love for football. Yet you are on a football tab talking about A-League expansion. Now I am a funny MAN, what does that make you LordBrucie?

AR Do you like the A League and do want to see the sport prosper in every sense in Australia ? ..

AR, aren't you the person who lectures others about "play the ball, not the man"? So, what's with the name-calling? Are you trying to argue that an Asian Super League for football, would not attract more than $250m/year that the AFL & NRL achieve. Even if the viewing audience across Asia is 0.1% of the population (0.1% of the population in Australia is 23k viewers) the Tv audience would be 4 million per home and away match. So, around 200 Home & Away ALeague matches would be attracting a TV audience greater than the AFL or NRL can achieve for their marquee Grand Final events or SoO. Interestingly, the EPL TV rights in the UK sold for A$3.4 billion/year and the average TV audiences in 2013-14 for EPL matches was 562k for 38 matches on BT and 1.2million for 116 matches on Sky.

punter- you claim my views on expansion are irrelevant and yet they compel you to respond. You're a funny woman/man! I hope that no money was paid for your education!

Lionheart- A very shrewd look at what the Asian Cup games did in crowd numbers. The question is although the "Asian migrants " among us turned out in great numbers to watch their "former" national teams,would they do the same if it were the champion team from their former country that was playing against a "champion team" out of the HAL.Very good food for thought. Cheers jb

Mid - am a bit surprised at the brevity of your comment re. this subject. Some months ago you and I had a discussion on the likely growth that could be expected for the season due to the fact that figures were suggesting the FFA's forecast of 8 % was extremely "tongue in cheek" and that the figures to that date were suggesting a growth figure nearer 3% ,all being well. Since then you have mentioned you are keeping your own charts so you must be aware that that "hoped for" growth that figures were suggesting ,(3%) back then has now had to be drastically altered and is in fact at this point in time , standing at a decrease over last season of nearly 3% and with no "derby "games coming up in the next few weeks this figure is more likely to decrease further before it improves. Now to my mind this is a subject that almost demands a more than "one word offering" from someone like you who has always given the impression of being a true fan of the game. The problem is not going to go away and we all hope that someone in high places can come up with a workable solution to the problem. Cheers jb.

"If there is an Asian Super League, the TV rights will be astronomical. They would dwarf the TV revenue being paid to NRL and AFL" Ok. Sorry...that can't be your point...can it? That TV revenue for an Asian league would be more than AFL/NRL? Keep up the good work Scoop!

You are but one person and your view of the expansion is irrelevant.