Burgess impresses at 6 for Bath

In my humble opinion he should be given a chance in the number 8 jumper.

I thought it was a solid performance, Redbull. However, he still looks to be having to think his way through positionally and in terms of decision-making. Don't think he'd have time to do that at international level, so he needs more development time and lots of game at '6'. RWC too soon for him, unfortunately, but if he sticks at it he's too good a player not to come through eventually.

Birdy, I watched a replay of the game at the weekend that this article refers to. I thought he had great timing to the tackle and got a few turnovers to boot, one of them resulting in a runaway try. Certainly much better at 6 than 12.

Yeah; I've watched all of Burgess's appearances for Bath on TV. I don't think he's got the pace for a 12; and hasn't got the kicking game to compensate. Clearly, he has all the physical gifts you'd need to be a great back-row forward, but it's a position, particularly in the modern game, that is complex and requires continual split-second decision making that has to be instinctive. It would take him at least 2 years to develop those instincts. If he sticks at it, you may well see him on the next Lion's tour as a '6'. The question is, will he be willing to 'learn his trade' quietly when he's used to being such a star?

They have had a few games in recent times where they have beaten up. Racing thumped them at home

Brock James is the ne you really needed in your argument

That is what happened to Saints at the hands of the Chiefs again on Sunday. Didn't help with a man or two in bin. Not a strong performance by a team way out in front. Thought be it is hard to maintain focus. Even more bizarre is fact that three yellow cards to Saints not one of them was Hartley.

That's a good joke you're right Sam Burgess would never be in the Rugby elite class as Richie Maccaw, Jones, Brooke, George Smith etc & would get smashed but young guns like Sam Cane & Michael Hopper who can play the game.

From memory Lipman was one of the Rebels' few decent performers in their first season in Super Rugby, but by that time he was past his best anyway. As for McAlister, he was a huge disappointment at Sale and, a few excellent performances apart, he never really showed the form that made him a top international player. As for him coming back a 'poorer player,' well you can blame the All Blacks' selectors for that. When he was selected for New Zealand in 2009, the guy had played 15 minutes of rugby since January so wasn't ready to be thrown into a Test match.

"We like our teams to have some sense of historical attachment to our franchises actually representing our franchise. And most of the sxv still have that as a core ingredient. "And of the SH players they are usually typically mercenaries- desserters for one reason or another choose not ply their trade for either their own club or country, purely for personal financial gain. Theyve chosen not to play here in front of us. Why should we watch them thousands of miles away?" Genuinely, if you had mentioned time differences I would have accepted that far more than this. If you have a genuine interest in rugby, I would expect you to have an interest in rugby that goes on in Europe, particularly when there are a number of southern hemisphere players plying their trade here. I watch Super Rugby as much as time allows me, and enjoy it (although there are some turgid games), and take an interest in the players coming through 'down south.' That's because I have a passion for the sport. I do find it surprising how insular many Australia, New Zealand and South Africa rugby fans are. Admittedly, it would be difficult to keep up with everything considering there are three big leagues but the Champions Cup and the latter stages of the Challenge Cup are a good way of keeping up with the top players in Europe. As for the mercenary comment, I'm not sure how Ali Williams, Bakkies Botha etc are mercenaries. What makes them different to someone like Scott Higginbotham who moved from the Reds (who were a decent team at the time) to the Rebels? I'm guessing he was offered more money? What makes them different to James O'Connor (who moved from the Force to the Rebels)? Kurtley Beale? Matt Giteau (who moved from the Brumbies to the Force)? There are many other examples of players still in Super Rugby who have moved from one franchise to another. They weren't exactly showing loyalty to their home franchise were they?

"a mix of McCaw, Michael Jones and Zinny Brooke"...the mind boggles of the presence of such a beast... :-)

The scrum penalties aren't that puzzling. They scrummage to dominate. If you have a dominant scrum why not use it to destroy your opponent physically and mentally to get field position

Burgess was a rubbish test player and the French had the same opinion of him.

When I saw the headline and ALL the comments I thought that Burgess must have produced one of the greatest loose forward performances of all time - a mix of McCaw, Michael Jones and Zinny Brooke. I was wrong.

These examples really aren't helping your case, TWAS. Putting aside my broader point (because you ignored it as you did the Bowden example) your examples, if anything, make JimmyB and my cases. I know more about English rugby than French, so I can definitely tell you that Lahiff and Mitchell were both fringe squad players at London Irish and Wasps, never 1st choice starters. Mitchell's Wiki reference even refers to the sterling role he played in the Wasps 'A' team. Rodney Blake was part of the Bayonne team that finished dead last in the Top 14 in 2010. They then had a shake-up which strongly suggests he was cut. Luke Rooney I've never heard of and can't be bothered to Google. What you should be asking yourself is how did all these non-first choice players in weak NH sides manage to secure SR contracts.

It's funny that you say you understand Birdys point then illustrate how you've missed it. I'd be interested to know how many of those appearances were from the start or off the bench, how many were in domestic cup competitions and not in the leagues etc. My previous reply is being moderated for some reason.

I understand your point Birdy. But here's the breakdown of most of these players. Luke Rooney - 2008-2010 - 22 Games for Toulon, 2011-13 - 24 Games for Toulon. He managed 10 games, almost all off the bench for the Rebels, the last placed team. Rodney Blake managed 52 caps for Bayonne 2008-2010. He managed 20 in the next 2 seasons at the Rebels. Lachlan Mitchell managed 31 games for Wasps in 2 seasons, often as a fullback. For the Rebels he managed 49 caps in 4 seasons, by the last 2 seasons only ever as a reserve or injury replacement. Lahiff managed 78 caps in 4 seasons at London Welsh and 8 for the Rebels in one season. I believe he started only 1 game.

Your saying they were good enough to be picked week in week out, it doesn't make it so, most were squad players. Anyway, I go back to the point that in some cases these players were simply too old ie Lipman and Campbell, too fat ie Blake, too sh1t ie Mitchell or just too RL ie Rooney who was never a rugby player anyway. What's more surprising is that some of these players were given SR contracts at all. There are of course plenty of names that could be bandied about to improve SR and the Wallabies who are currently plying their trade up North, however it's a rather pointless exercise since the ARU won't select them and you probably haven't seen them play since they left these shores. Like Taylorman seems to assert, they cease to exist once they've left SR or they become infected with sh1tness or something like that.

First of all, TWAS, many of those players weren't getting picked 'week in, week out' in the NH. Lahiff was in and out of a poor London Irish side; Lipman was a regular starter; Blake, Rooney and Campbell I'd have to Google to know who they are, so they weren't exactly notable players. One player definitely struggling to get a regular game at either London Irish or Leicester was Daniel Bowden, who I believe is now the starting fly-half for the Blues. The wider point, though, is that no-one is suggesting that all the professional teams in the NH are SR standard. There are over 40 in the Celtic, English and French leagues, and they play through the 6 Nations and have long seasons. They need big squads and there are some weak teams amongst that 40 who every SR team would beat comfortably. However, the top sides in each of those leagues would hold their own in the SR and a significant number of them, I believe, would do a lot better than that.

I'm not saying they were superstars. I'm saying these were regular players who played 20+ games a season in the NH, yet struggled to get regularly picked for Super Rugby games. The randomness of the names is my point. These random names were apparently good enough to get picked week in, week out in the NH.