Scrumma-mogram: Wallabies Scrum (Part 3)

By RobC / Roar Guru

Today we compare Wallabies-Ireland in 2013 versus 2014. We also included cheerleaders, whose presence is unanimously agreed by the panel and should be added into the rulebook somewhere.

In this forum, we invite you to share your thoughts, fears and (happy) tears about the scrum. Everybody is welcome: backs, forwards, fans, non-fans, referees and coaches.

Please feel free to review the introduction article of the scrumma-mogram.

1. Andrew Blades and Ewen McKenzie versus Ireland 2013
Continuation. First one here, and the second one here.

Firstly, we look at what was expected to be an Ireland demolition of the Wallaby scrum in 2013. In the previous few months, the Wallabies were hammered by the British and Irish Lions, All Blacks, Springboks, Pumas and England.

The Wallabies managed well versus the Italians in the previous week, which was considered lucky due to injury. While luck of the Irish seemed to have rubbed off on Stephen Moore and the pack in this video, it took a while for it to sink into the commentators that the Wallabies scrum isn’t what was expected.

2. Andrew Blades and Michael Cheika versus Ireland 2014: Attitude check
Twelve months has passed. It is the same scrum coach with a new head coach. Scott Fardy is missing, along with Big Kev, Stephen Moore and Ben Mowen. Instead we have Sam Carter, Luke Jones, Saia Fainga’a and Ben McCalman. Big Willy comes in at the most crucial time where the Wallabies need to win their own scrum in Ireland’s redzone, and score winning points.

There is an observable difference in attitude and performance, compared to 2013. A similar stark difference is also observable for the Wallaby versus Wales scrums, when comparing 2013 versus 2014.

DaffyD says
The Wallabies forwards are not highly regarded for their scrummaging. However, they have shown occasionally where they are quite capable of being the dominant pack. They just cannot go out and simply try to survive or have parity, all eight have to work together and release their inner mongrel.

But there is also a technique and timing issue. With there being such a small difference to winning and losing a scrum, it is critical that the back row stay attached before the ball is out. At times the number six, seven or eight seem to be looking to get the quick ‘breakaway’ before the ball is actually out of the scrum. Getting the timing right is critical.

In the modern game it is important for the back row to stay bound, keep the pressure on and trust the backs to do their job in defence.

While putting pressure on the inside backs is part of the role of the open side flanker, and the number eight is expected to cover, it should not be at the expense of conceding a penalty. Many teams these days would prefer to force a scrum penalty rather than run the ball, therefore if the scrum cannot be won, it is better to lose the ball than concede a penalty.

At the 56:11 minute mark (of game time) we see Michael Hooper’s poor body position on the side of the scrum. It seems to me that he regularly lifts his head to meerkat, often when the scrum is sliding backwards. Not being the biggest flanker he has to stay attached, give it his all and bide his time before breaking.

In the final scrum of the second video, it’s all about mongrel. In the end the Irish dig deeper and find that little bit extra. Australia can’t win the quick ball that was needed and concede a penalty. Where was the Wallaby pack’s inner mongrel? Like that dog that stands growling over the bone and daring you to take it from them?

What’s the difference? One team wanted it more than the other.

Diggercane says
The major difference between the two performances was the work of the loose forwards, far more disciplined in 2013 as opposed to 2014, where they were not in good position and coming off far too early or meerkatting.

You can see Schatz’s position on the blindside was terrible in the last scrum, pushing up and essentially forcing his loosehead down and collapsing. You don’t want that.

3. Big BIFF: Round 13 – Stormers versus Brumbies
Requester: Harry Jones

The Stormers won this game. We look at how the scrums helped them in this win, especially considering the Canberians were 31 kilograms heavier that the Capetonians. We missed out on the Scott Sio versus Frans Malherbe contest. Instead we see 120-kilogram loosies JP Smith and Allan Alaalatoa push with Rory Arnold. Jake White and Laurie Fisher would not be very impressed.

Diggercane says
Check out the binding, the majority on the arm, or with a handful of jersey then around the arm, resulting in a lot of lost binds. Lots of silly buggers going on in the front row that day but at least the cheerleaders were happy.

DaffyD says
Awesome scrummaging from the Stormers, a team with one of the best scrums in Super Rugby. For me this game was a litmus test to see whether or not the Australian conference scrums were improving as much as I had hoped.

1. At the 2:15 mark (video time), watch for as the Brumbies’ number eight lifts his head from the scrum. It’s only an instant but at that instant the Stormers give a second shove, and the Brumbies’ scrum is smashed.

2. In the reset sequence – scrum three and four – the number eight’s head is out of the scrum and taking a peek. (The earlier scrums don’t have the angle to see if it happened there as well.)

It’s hard to win scrums, especially against a pack like the Stormers, when you only have seven men pushing in the scrum. And finally after five resets the ball emerges onto the field and the Stormers score a try.

And the cheerleaders cheer, yay!

3. The third last and second last scrums show the importance of being the dominant scrum and being seen to be the dominant scrum. The benefit of the doubt tends to go to that team. And then the referee misses the hand on the ground by Steven Kitshoff, is it worth a penalty?

In my opinion, no, but I don’t make the laws and the ref should enforce them as they are written, equally as possible to both teams. I have no doubt the Brumbies would have appreciated it.

This sequence of video shows two things to me. It seems to me that there is only small differences between packs that count for a lot on any given day. The first is all about attitude.

To be top dog in the scrum it is imperative to let the mongrel out. There is no coping or surviving in a two-dog fight. If the pack goes into a scrum to survive and not to clearly dominate the other, sooner or later the scrums, the penalties and the benefit of the doubt will go against them.

All eight men in the scrum must stay bound and not detach early. Having only seven men in the shove will invariably lead to loss of scrum and loss of referee perception. In the scrums above involving Australian teams there are many examples of ‘Scrumma-interruptus’*, where the back row has detached and stopped pushing too early. Will the back row please stay on the scrum and give it everything until the ball comes out?

OK, that’s all folks! We hope it was fun and your observations are appreciated. Questions are even more appreciated, and no question is too silly. And anyone can answer.

Please request any other engagements you want to be ‘Scrumma-mogramed’. We need ideas, and complaints…

Also, stay tuned for the next round:
– Fourth instalment of ‘Wallaby Scrum: Hope? Or Dopes?’: Rugby Championship 2014
– The Sharks request by ‘adsa’

*Scrumma-interruptus: When the back row stops pushing and or detaches prematurely often signifying the scrum is about to be screwed. It generally leaves half of the viewers feeling deeply unsatisfied.

The Crowd Says:

2015-05-23T08:01:14+00:00

ThugbyFan

Guest


Wow Daffy, there is a lot of pee in your first sentence. Even Phil the Pom is full of pees, but I luv his mongrel 'art-ti-tood" LoL

2015-05-23T02:32:34+00:00

Daffyd

Roar Rookie


I guess you're saying that the pretty, priveleged, purebred, private, prep and public school pups we breed in Oz rugby just don't have enough mongrel. A story about mongrel: "Phil the Pom" was a Yorkshire Agricultural exchange student who turned up to a country training session out of the blue. It was a few weeks into the season and he said he played TH prop. After scrum and general ball work the forwards and backs get together for a Ruck n Run. Most teams are familiar with the drill -- it usually starts with an unopposed scrum or lineout and the ball is passed along the backline and the winger falls to ground in a simulated tackle for a ruck -- and run again. P.t.P, hits the first ruck with force, moves it forward and gets some leverage on the winger by rucking the crap out of him. The winger is spat out of the back of the ruck still hanging onto the ball. "Whoa Phil!" says the team captain, coach & half back. "Take it easy -- it's just training and he's one of ours..." To which P.t.P replies in his thick Yorkshire accent, "It's not just trainin!" he says. Its abaht winnin t' ball! Enny playa lies near t' ball 'n mecs it 'ard for wee ta gerr ta win t' ball -- wee team or theirs -- is goan gerr sem treytment." And he lived up to it. We were just faster to get away from the ball in a game than the opposition. He treated the game and training just the same. And we won a lot of ball courtesy P.t.P

2015-05-23T01:46:44+00:00

Daffyd

Roar Rookie


I agree -- but, like most things -- it's all about the timing

2015-05-22T11:40:50+00:00

Harry Jones

Expert


I hadn't noticed it. I'll watch for it. Maybe Stirzaker will try it with Burger....

2015-05-22T10:35:31+00:00

Who?

Guest


Great point about the 9's. Can we all pile on the refs for missing this illegality, too..? It's not like it's hard to spot! And it's a clear breach of the laws.

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:58:18+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


100% Kane

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:57:19+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Gday Pete. Looking forward to seeing the new WB scrum come TRC.

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:50:15+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


cheers RT

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:46:54+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Should say above 'Changes in angles in shoulders, elbows, hips and arm grips deflect from the head on push'

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:45:01+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


In the case of Stormers / Brumbies. Berry should have been more specific about the binds. But I dont think it was material. What was material is the uncharacteristic lack of preparation by Brumbies: - Against the Stormers shove on the Brumbie feed. Brumbies endlessly went for the quick hook. But it ended up getting stuck on 2nd row, and the Stormers push right through - for the Stormers second shove. They should have a much wider stance to repel. Or otherwise they should attack the Stormer hook. Overall, there seemed to be a lack of Brumbie core strength. It was all over the shop. Its quite odd: - Brumbie hips and shoulders were bobbing up and down. All positions, FR 2nd row - Conversely the Stormers spines were generally even. - Some Stormers wins were straight shoves (mash potatoed). - Some angles on one side. Some on the other side. - Brumbies did not display coordinated transmission of power in either attack or defence.

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T09:37:33+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Thanks DC. bryan, there is no actual bind between the opposing props: - they should grip only jersey a few inches behind the armpit - THP should arch is arm over the LHP. like a spider leg No arm (elbow to elbow) downward leaning allowed. No gripping of the arm allowed. This brings down the LHP - LHP arm should be like a locomotive bar across wheels. Limited arm bending - Most important bind is between the props and hooker. Must be tight like the seams of your shirt. - Then the 2nd row bind. Should be also like the seams of your shirt. In reality they open up to enable front rowers to change their point of attack The point is to keep the straight push. Shoulders elbows, hips and arm grips deflect from the head on push. But the deflections are an important part of the game to exploit weaknesses in different sections of the opponent scrum. Typical examples are: - 1st poor structure power. so you just punch through, either on opposing hook or 2nd shove. - 2nd one prop or his pod (flanker + lock) is weak not setup propertly. So you attack that prop but pointing across and up/down, sometimes leading to collapse - 3rd weak / lOose bind between opposing front rowers. So you attack (point) your opponent props bind - 4th the push from one side is weak. So point the scrum in that direction (include locks etc) - 6th for low scrums, the THP balance is on tender hooks. So you adjust your shoulder a bit, and that THP decks 'himself' - 7th opponents cant react to a change in angle. So you drive through in a slight angle, but do so quickly and convincingly The arms and shifting grips is generally the tip of the iceberg, indicating the niggle. Poor refs...

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T08:03:04+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Hello hello! I think Cheika has. Mario Led is the new scrum coach. However, I thought Blades was v good. Im probably the only one who believes that, except his family and best mates.

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T08:00:46+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Gday ThugbyFan, thanks for your feedback. I think Daffs gets a medal for adding 'Scrumma-interruptus' into the scrum taxonomy Thought Tahs did alright vs Stormers. But if the Stormers set their scrums a little higher, they would have had a much result. I seems the Tahs core strength of the 2nd row are not fully channeled through the props, esp on BR side. There also seems to be a drop when JackPot is not around. Reds scrum is just great. These guys may be screwing around with their phase play, loose scrum and everything with it. But they are really serious about set piece. Mario Led is indeed the new scrum coach. But its really up to Cheika to decide, how much priority the scrum gets. Just like EOYT14, it will show in his selection. Carter scrum in TRC14 was v good, I thought - but will def be reviewed in the next scrumma-mogram.

AUTHOR

2015-05-22T07:48:53+00:00

RobC

Roar Guru


Its been happening quite a bit more this year Harry. I know 9s are supposed to be pesky. Im unsure they are also supposed to be 'frisk'y!

2015-05-22T06:23:19+00:00

Daz

Guest


I meant when an Aussie rugby forward sticks his head in a scrum. The leaguies don't need to work as a pack and push at scrum time but they make up for it in so many other ways. So how did Brad Thorne work this out that his mates needed him to push and get behind his mates at scrum time? Call it intuitive. Call it not letting your mates down. Call it something the pretty, privileged boys will never understand. If they don't do it they are still guaranteed of a wonderful life.

2015-05-22T05:32:00+00:00

ThugbyFan

Guest


Hi RobC. Great work from you and Daffy n Digger, very informative. Interesting on attitude when you put the footage together. As many other scribes have said, you enter the scrums to trample over the opposition, not try to hold the line and hope the ref will see all the opposition's transgressions (in the NH with their refs?? More chance of Tony Abbott being voted Most Believed Man in Australia). As for this years SXV, the Tahs scrum has definately improved over last year, they belted the Blues, Ponies and Hurricane's scrums, but were outgunned/out thought in the Stormers and the first Force matches. The Reds, with Holmes and Slipper have also been awesome in the scrums in most matches. With regards to the WB, firstly the obvious cattle changes will help (cattle changes for the pigs??). Steven Moore and Pocock in, as well McMahon and Hooper out of 1st XV as way too light, out goes Carter also as he just has never impressed me in green and gold, apart from his lineout skills. After the cattle comes the forwards coach. Not sure who has/is replaced Andrew Blades but Topo or Mario Ledesma with the Tahs looks the goods to me. If that's not possible, then with the short time frame I can only suggest John Connelly, although I don't know about ego clashes there.

2015-05-22T04:55:02+00:00

Digby

Roar Guru


Because its fun RT, couldnt think of anything worse than standing out in the backfield somewhere picking daisys, adjusting your shirt to show off your beach muscles just right and hoping your hair doesnt get messy with the breeze all while the real work is being done in front of you ;)

2015-05-22T04:51:21+00:00

Digby

Roar Guru


Hi Bryan, Essentially its about leverage. Props will try and gain an advanatge and the shorter the bind the more leverage can be had. Try lifting something heavy keeping your arm straight versus bending your elbow and and lifting closer to your body. Essentially its easier the more you bend your elbow and bring it in closer to your body. When propping, the LH reaches under and the TH reaches over. The closer the LH binds relative to his head the more power he can leverage in trying to push the TH up and destabilise his opposite. Pushes up, move head in under sternum and usually ends up angling in as well. A TH will come over and will try to stop his opposite by binding close or on to the arm, in an effort to stop the LH gaining in ascendency by clamping down (bringing his right shoulder down while holding onto the LH arm) and in effect neutralising him and will try and splinter him from his Hooker. Longer the binds, essentially all you can do is push straight and less chance for silly stuff. The video from the Brumbies game shows a number of examples of this type of carry on, with the props losing their binds and changing their grips. Hopefully that makes sense. ;)

2015-05-22T03:39:37+00:00

Kane

Guest


Believe it or not there are times where merekating for a flanker is the right approach to take.

2015-05-22T02:59:25+00:00

Daz

Guest


It never ceases to amaze me how the laws of physics and how experience and common sense somehow get suspended when a forward sticks his head in a scrum. My dad used to describe me as having bone above the eyebrow for playing in the forwards (in League at least) but even I can see how eight men might overpower seven, or six, or five depending on how many heads go up.

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