"Very loved" Goodes to return to AFL action

Ah, I'd thought you'd disappeared in a hissy huff jax. Again I’m not a big one for loooong posts, but here we go in semi-random order: i) I'm sorry if some of my posts on here have been difficult for you jax. I see the value in resolving a specific issue and not kitchen sinking all over the place. ii) I entered with a specific point that was related to your post on the blame game around the booing-Goodes issue. iii) If your contribution to Indigenous people's plight is continuing the discussion, isn't that what people in the media doing and what this whole “s/storm” has been about? iv) I have commentated on your actions and occasionally summed them up as representing what I've noticed about your more frequently invoked patterns. v) Categories are very useful, they help us navigate our lives more efficiently. But they also allow us to switch down our thinking and if we take them for more than just a useful convenience it's problematical. A bit like that story about the family who blindly followed their GPS navigating them out into the desert where they got lost and died of dehydration (I actually think that’s an urban myth, but it’s a useful metaphor nonetheless). We are particularly susceptible to over reliance on categories when our brains are giving up energy, that could be used for higher level thinking, on highly charged emotions. vi) My reply on this thread was to focus on the behaviour rather than the labels. Examining behaviour as to why we do it, calmly, and aware of our emotional responses, provides a much more pragmatic way to find values based solutions. The whole "holding to account the media" thing seemed to feed into the emotional blame game that has been so common with this and something I didn't think was useful to engage in. vii) By 80% values/20% emotion I presume you mean the booing. If so this bears some examination on its own as it would help to unravel the threads. Do you really thing booing is a values driven action more than an emotionally driven one? (Values and emotions can be hard to separate out because we tend to get more emotional when we feel our values are involved). viii) What do you think I'm being presumptuous about? ix) I'm not particularly interested in that issue of media mechanisms and the sociopathic pockets/behaviours that are part of most large organisations. I accept them for what they are and modify my choices accordingly. So I haven't looked to closely at the Fitzpatrick thing, not sure what substance there is to it and have got more important things to get to before I give it any real time. But that can also be easily viewed through that lens of behaviours driven by values vs those driven by emotions. Whenever strong emotions are involved interpretations and memories get a little shaky, so I'm assuming there's a lot of he said/she said stuff in the Fitzpatrick/Colless thing. As above re the booing, lot of problematic behaviours are often framed in values, but get distorted by any strong emotional reactions surrounding the issue. Although off the top of my head (btw not sure why you are holding me to account and/or asking me to be a spokesman for the AFL/Fitzpatrick) here's a couple of quick responses: - We started with the most useful way forward on the Goodes issue. I'm not sure what someone else's bad behaviour on a abstractly related issue (whatever substance there is to it) is going to serve other than confusing the issue more. - The booing-Goodes story started way back and got to a flashpoint at the Eagles game, and has consumed a lot of the media oxygen around the AFL. I'm sure if there's more substance to the Fitzpatrick thing, other than political intrigues, it'll garner a lot more media oxygen. Although it just doesn't inflame the emotions like the booing-Goodes issue does so will probably never get the same degree of attention. - The Worst is always more than keen to claim the WC link to Colless when Sydney done good, so why not now? - Plenty of organisations start with an internal investigation. Ostensibly, for an organisation having morphed the way it has, the AFL is doing alright. There going to make mistakes, no question. I’m not sure there’s not much of a case for corruption. But I’d still say it’s pretty evident this is a side issue to resolving the booing-Goodes issue.

One reason i comment as I do is in the hope that others will run with the story. http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/07/claims-of-afl-conspiracy-should-concern-us-all/ Might be a coincidence and it might not. So long as the truth comes out it doesn't really matter. I want my game back, it was hijacked a long time ago.

1. This thread was a continuation of my threads of last week about Goodes, the AFL, Gov't and media. Some may prefer to confine this to booing with racial intent. I see and want to talk about a wider, relevant and connected issue and I can. You jumped on my thread remember, Recently I called for Colless or Cook to replace Fitz in another thread, this isn't new information. I've said that the AFL is poorly managed and that the media is ..... etc. You don't miss much so I'm quite sure you've read my threads of last week. I'm not going to write a background story every time that I want to comment on one or more aspects of Goodes, Gov't, AFL and media. I believe that you like to make things difficult at times amd if that's your gig so be it. I'd rather you didn't as it's a waste of time. Can you respect my wishes or are you saving them for Adam? You asked me earlier what I am doing about it - I'm continuing the debate for starters and I do a lot more. 20% emotion - 80% values Don't be presumptuous. "There’s excessive categorisation on all sides, as is so common when emotions run high. Standard human response, unfortunately." You have categorised me a number of times. Have you got a mirror? 2. I have now 3. Yep 4. I don't. I was continuing my thread. You chose to read it and reply. Any chance of you answering of my questions? Or, ignore it and go away. Both work for me.

Jax in no way rely on footage for GF14 decibel rating; regrettably own ears, eyes & heart. Compelled to canvass crowd why & gained insight into Hawks fans rationale. When I heard same pre-meditated booing with no onfield incident/s during coverage 2015, followed social media as games played out - most comments derogatory & rallying to maintain the rage. Own ears eyes at GCSuns booing from smaller sample, chest beating & mimicking a gorilla. True, some games crowds louder than others & no evidence at most home games. Attended Carlton SCG, audible booing, crowd scuffle, fan removed, spear in that order. It shocked Swans that it spread to non Vic clubs especially WA - usually neutral & nil bad blood. I guess until we get the wooden spoon we'll be persecuted for being successful. That may just be the inaugural year the AFL deny 1st round picks to bottom of ladder. In other news Aus just lost the Ashes.

lol…are you and macca brothers from another mother or what? You both seem to be pretty hopeless at sticking to a single thread/point and think by hopping all over the place and trying to run the whole agenda that it's a way to have a fruitful discussion. Oh well, each to their own. Just out of semi-interest I've got a few questions too: Where did we start on this little thread jax? Did you answer any of my questions? Have you even addressed any of the points I've raised? What makes you think I'm interested in the Colless/Fitzpatrick spat?

Only one of us is muddying the waters and it's not me, I've asked a number of questions which you keep ignoring, that's your choice. I'll ignore your comments until such time as you do. It is a waste of both of our time otherwise.

jax it's muddying the issue. It seems like it's running down a rabbit hole leading away from the initial point. The question on Fitzpatrick's role as an administrator doesn't inflame as much passion as the question around Adam Goodes. It's fairly amusing that you went from your statement I'm "looking too deeply into it" and then went on to construct a far reaching web around peoples intent, agendas and wotnot, when my point was on the value in evaluating your own actions according to what's important to you rather than being driven by emotions.

I agree with some of your points but some of them are plain wrong and others are generalisations. "round 17 26/7 WCE – booing almost at GF14 levels plus imaginary spear take II)," That's plain wrong - the booing was not any louder than it was at the earlier games this year. If you watch the game that is clearly the case. Maybe 1-2 thousand at most. Comparing it to the 2014 Grand Final decibel register is wrong. If you are relying on the media coverage to form your opinion then I can see why you would think the entire crowd was booing Goodes but they were in fact booing the umpiring decisions and the media manipulated the footage to paint exactly that picture and it seems a lot of people fell for it including yourself. Watch the replay if you don't believe me. I hope the booing stops and the Cats win as well.

Evidently any player, coach, fan or media who speaks for or in support of AG is dismissed by critics as getting it wrong, accused of being a poor judge of character and condemned for calling an end to sustained, unjustified claims and crowd hostility, which btw is better understood if you know the factual timeline. It begins round 9 24/5/2013, media gaffe 5 days later 29/5, AOTY Jan 2014, (no personal experience of crowds in 2014 away season) other than unprecedented treatment GF14 witnessed by 96000 fans, anecdotal proof for the hostility (a range of reasons including race) and covered accurately in the media the week following. Starts again round 4 24/4, round 7 15/5, round 8 22/5, round 9 29/5 (Indigenous round, imaginary spear beat-up), round 10 6/6, round 11 12/6, round 13 26/6, round 15 12/7, round 16 18/7, round 17 26/7 WCE - booing almost at GF14 levels plus imaginary spear take II), media meltdown, round 18 leave of absence, nation unites in disgust, Cats coach appeals for respect in round 19. During the timeline of events, defamatory, baseless untruths and insults appear in social media tweets and posts for above mentioned rounds from opposition fans plus commentary such as what we see on the Roar. A war of words rages on fan facebook sites - a majority are racial slurs, a proportion are dirty flogs, a proportion are don't know why but why not, a proportion are illiterate. So the reasons and the position fans decide to take has been exhausted - how about we respect the opposition and have a great round. Game on felines!

"Oh Colless, there’s a man who has no agendas and is in no way likely to allow emotions like anger & bitterness to sway his actions" You don't think Fitzpatrick and the AFL have a much bigger agenda than Colless? Im curious, what gives you grounds to trust Fitzpatrick and the AFL? Instead of dismissing every word he said because it's 'Colless' why don't you dissect his quotes from the SHM link above and paste them below and rebut them one by one? Are you saying that Colless lied in every single quote? Do you know how irrational that sounds? If you don't believe them dissect them here so we can all see your reasoning. I just want the truth, conspiracies don't interest me.

1. SEN is a minority Victorian radio station. It's not Fairfax or News Corp in terms of its reach and influence. 2. Murdoch and Farifax press have written 4 articles on the topic that are indexable - search google news for "Richard Colless Mike Fitzpatrick' to see the 4 articles. 3. When I search google news for 'Adam Goodes Boo AFL Racist' their are 1,324 articles written - 4 articles on Colless compared to 1,324 is quiet a difference and I'm not sure how you could think they haven't been quiet on this. 4. AFL.com.au had not covered the story the last time I checked a few hours ago. 5. Colless said that he AFL were slow to react, they didn't do enough to support Goodes and stop the booing earlier. These are facts. 6. Colless alleged that Fitzpatrick was involved in draft/trade tampering, sponsorship roots, swearing etc. Why aren't the media bombarding us with these allegations? 7. Why did the Fairfax article state that Colless was the chairman of the WCE and not the Swans? 8. Why did Eddie say that the AFL would investigate the AFL? It was an instinctual response and Eddie has a batter idea of how the AFL operates than any of us. I'm presenting facts and asking questions, nothing more, nothing less. You can call them conspiracies and keep your head buried in the sand, that's your choice. When you've studied propaganda in the media for 100's of hours come back and talk to me. It's much easier (and lazier) to simply dismiss it as a conspiracy than to do the research.

Oh Colless, there's a man who has no agendas and is in no way likely to allow emotions like anger & bitterness to sway his actions…but the geniuses at SEN have been all over this, as has the Murdoch media, so I'm not sure that equates as the media being incredibly quiet on it. It all seems to be just muddying the issue though jax. When you see conspiracies and categorise people as having malicious intent (now theres a nice cover word, non specific and almost impossible to measure) it makes it hard to get any clean air for thinking. You end going around and around, grinding away in a circle, twisting your guts into knots.

the other discussion is over here http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/08/04/afl-chairman-hails-all-time-great-goodes

This is from another thread but it's relevant here. Richard Colless supporting my position and opening up about Goodes, the AFL and Mike Fitzpatrick. http://www.smh.com.au/sport/ashamed-of-sport-says-afls-longest-serving-chairman-richard-colless-20150730-gio2xp.html They named Colless in the article as the inaugural chairman of the WCE. They didn’t mention that he held the post for 1 year way back in 1987. He was chairman of the Swans for approx 20 years and retired a few years ago but that was not mentioned in the article. Why did they mention his 1 year tenure at WC and omit his 20 year career at the Sydney Swans? I couldn’t find many articles about Colless on Fitzpatrick. I would have thought that this would have been a big story? The media has been incredibly quiet on this topic. Triple M radio discussion with explosive claims. Note Eddie say that the AFL Investigator would be responsible for investigating the claims that Colless made. How can the AFL investigate itself? Sounds awfully like the FIFA ethics committee to me. Listen to the audio here. http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/2015/8/former-sydney-boss-richard-colles-staggering-claims-of-tirade-from-afl-chairman-mike-fitzpatrick/

He's just trying to shut the whole nonsense down and concentrate on the footy. Now there's an idea!

What exactly are you doing to "positively and miraculously" change the lives of Aboriginal people?

Wow, such mean spirited vitriol from Jax. Goodes, in the passage referred to, is obviously talking about the booing controversy. He is not suggesting that the issues of discrimination and disadvantage of indigenous people are resolved, nor that he will cease to have any involvement. For someone who is not a politician, and has a full time job as a footballer, he has done an admirable job of drawing attention to those issues. What has your contribution been, Jax?

Reasonable people are also perfectly capably of doing dumb things. Just as people who aren't essentially racist can do (unintentionally) bigoted things. It does make it difficult to fairly evaluate and remediate (or not) those actions when someone labels us universally stupid etc for a particular action, or when someone points out the flaws in our actions we take it too much to heart and get overly defensive.

It is the easiest. I'm not sure that it's the most sensible.

We shouldn't care what the rest of the world thinks. I wouldn't boo if I was at the game but if someone wanted to protest at being muzzled I'd have to support it. If I didn't then I am giving away my right to free speech and the legal right to protest.