Joubert was right all along

By Max / Roar Rookie

Why would you ever become a referee? A team gives away 10 penalties and nobody bats an eyelid, but you give away one and everyone loses their minds! Players yell at you. Coaches roast you post match. Fans abuse you to the point where it has crossed from verbal to physical in some cases.

The only solace that you have is that your employers know the difficulty of your position and will back any decision you make to the hilt, always arguing the effects of perspective, feel for the game, and grey areas in the rule book to stem the torrent of criticism levelled at you.

It is incredible therefore to see the World Rugby match official selection committee come out and state, in no uncertain terms, that:

“On review of all available angles, it is clear that after the knock-on, the ball was touched by Australia’s Nick Phipps and Law 11.3(c) states that a player can be put on-side by an opponent who intentionally plays the ball.

“The appropriate decision, therefore, should have been a scrum to Australia for the original knock-on.”

This undermining of a leading referee in a public statement is as big a kick in the teeth as Shane Smeltz gave Mark Birighitti in the A-League last week. Last time we saw treachery of this kind the victim had a crouton-laden salad named after him.

The thing that really gets to me is that I, the humble punter with an unprecedented sense of self-importance, believe that the committee have actually got it wrong.

Let’s dive into the rule book, shall we?

Law 11 – Offside

In general play a player is offside if the player is in front of a teammate who is carrying the ball, or in front of a teammate who last played the ball.

Offside means that a player is temporarily out of the game. Such players are liable to be penalised if they take part in the game.

In general play, a player can be put onside either by an action of ateammate or by an action of an opponent. However, the offside player cannot be put onside if the offside player interferes with play; or moves forward, towards the ball, or fails to move 10 metres away from the place where the ball lands.

From the first sentence we know that at the point where John Hardie knocks the ball on, the reserve prop who eventually catches the ball was offside.

Let’s focus on the last statement though. To paraphrase a general statement to read specifically to this situation; a player can be put onside by an action of an opponent. However the offside player cannot be put onside if the offside player interferes with the play or moves towards the ball.

Curious. Reading further:

11.1 Offside in general play

(a) A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three things:
• Interferes with play or,
• Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).

This is reinforcing the major points from section 11, while highlighting the fact that a player who interferes with the play (by catching a loose ball perhaps) is liable to be sanctioned (penalised in this instance).

“But Nick Phipps played at the ball!” I hear you shout. Let’s look at why this is of relevance:

11.3 Being put onside by opponents

In general play, there are three ways by which an offside player can be put onside by an action of the opposing team. These three ways do not apply to a player who is offside under the 10-Metre Law.
(a) Runs five metres with ball.
When an opponent carrying the ball runs five metres, the offside player is put onside.
(b) Kicks or passes.
When an opponent kicks or passes the ball, the offside player is put onside.
(c) Intentionally touches ball.
When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not catch it, the offside player is put onside.

This is the clause which the committee has chosen to focus on. They have stated that by playing at the ball, Phipps has put the opposing player onside.

I have two problems with this. Firstly, as mentioned above, a player cannot be put onside if the offside player moves towards the ball. Yes, Phipps is making a play at the ball, but guess who else is? Our lovely little offside friend, the Scottish number 18.

Secondly, this clause refers directly to being offside in general play, as outlined in Section 11.1. But wouldn’t this situation more closely resemble the following?

11.7 Offside after a knock-on

When a player knocks-on and an offsideteammate next plays the ball, the offside player is liable to sanction if playing the ball prevented an opponent from gaining an advantage.

There isn’t much of a point to be made here, apart from the fact that perhaps section 11.3(c) doesn’t necessarily apply to this situation at all, seeing as the rule book specifically separates “offside in general play” from “offside after a knock-on”.

This is only a side note, and not essential to prove my original thesis.

I only have one more section of the rule book discuss, and it is the one that puts the Scottish forwards in an awkward position by being in front of the ball. At the point where Hardie touches the ball, the Scottish lineout forwards must retreat behind Hardie. Unfortunately, this direction of travel leads them to be moving towards the ball, meaning they cannot be put onside by the actions of the opposition under the terms of section 11.

This leaves me with one small hole to fill, the possibility that the Scottish player is standing still until the point Phipps touches the ball, then he reacts from an onside position to claim the loose ball.

If he has made no attempt to move onside he is determined to be:

11.9 Loitering

A player who remains in an offside position is loitering. A loiterer who prevents the opposing team from playing the ball as they wish is taking part in the game, and is penalised. The referee makes sure that the loiterer does not benefit from being put onside by the opposing team’s action.

CSI-mode activated. Zoom. Enhance. What do we have?

The referee makes sure that the loiterer does not benefit from being put onside by the opposing team’s action.

And so the referee did.

The Crowd Says:

2015-10-28T06:59:13+00:00

BC

Guest


Phipps admitted afterwards that he tried to catch the ball.

2015-10-26T17:34:27+00:00

Fergus MCarthy

Guest


I have always maintain Joubert may have been right and at worst was a judgement call on "intentionally", and he made that call. All pundits say "the ball hit the Australian", never "the Autralian hit the ball". Joubert was out of order running off the pitch at the end. Tha's not rugby. World Rugby are out of order not backing their official, or at least saying nothing. ps I'm English,and sort of neutral Appreciated the quality of OZ when they beat England, but wanted home nation to go through. Othere than one thing, just loving this RWC

2015-10-24T11:04:54+00:00

HP

Guest


The comittee who reviewed Jouberts decusion was actually led by an ex Scottish player. How daft is that.

2015-10-24T10:39:03+00:00

John

Guest


What a crock of Shiite! Trial by tabloid the British way. The referee is SOLE arbiter of fact and has the final say!! Is that clear?? World Rugby - hang your heads in shame. Scotland - hold your heads high. Strident critics of Joubert - you go out there and do a better job!!

2015-10-24T01:13:54+00:00

Warwick Todd

Guest


Nah Biffa you're a Geordie, Scottish wannabe!

2015-10-24T01:01:34+00:00

paleocortex

Guest


Nice article Max. You highlight both the important points to come out of this incident. 1. The referee is sole judge of fact and law during the game. While he/she may take advice from assistant refs and TMOs (in certain situations), the ref's decision is final and must be respected. World Rugby is taking a grave risk back-stabbing refs after the event. 2. The Laws of the game are too complex. Making a split second decision based on Law 11.1 while considering the ramifications of 11.3, 11.4, 11.7 and 11.9 is a job for a computer, not the human brain. Refereeing errors are inevitable. They occur in every game. Nothing to see here folks. Move on.

2015-10-22T19:54:56+00:00

Eroni

Guest


Yeah Go Aussie you good thing.

2015-10-21T20:27:09+00:00

Biffa

Guest


Brazil...

2015-10-21T18:12:15+00:00

Kesmcc

Guest


So someone on the roar said he got it right. World rugby should be ashamed of themselves. God, he made the wrong call. Nothing is going to change it now but that doesn't change the fact it should have been a scrum. Australia still might have won. They might have lost. For me it's the fact that he made such a game changing decision at that stage of the game from something that was never clear cut. Referees are told to penalise the clear and obvious. I think it's pretty fair to say that even Joubert wasn't sure he made the right call by the look on his face whilst watching the replay. He should have given the wallabies the scrum feed and let them determine Thier own destiny. Not hand the game to them on a silver platter essentially giving Scotland no chance of scoring again with only 30 seconds left on the clack after the restart.

2015-10-21T11:37:22+00:00

Ken Catchpole's Other Leg

Guest


That's a problem for me Rebel every time I post

2015-10-21T11:12:17+00:00

kezablonde

Guest


Plus, didn't someone post an alternative thesis the other day which placed Dublin at the heart of an octopussy of conspiracies? Long story short: Scotland is run by the Cathars ..or was it the Masons? Anyway, friends in high places. So no matter how hard the princes of darkness try, they cannot shake the incorruptible Craig Joubert.

2015-10-21T10:30:49+00:00

FrancisF

Roar Pro


Very persuasive and convincing. Craig Joubert actually got it right with the penalty after all. The British tabloids were ranting hot air which frightened the World Rugby officials to come out with their shameful put-down on Craig Juoubert.

2015-10-21T10:25:44+00:00

Dandaman

Roar Rookie


This is getting ridiculous on both sides now however to be fair it is the scottish supporters who are stirring this up and not letting it go for the most part. Scotland need to move forward and put this behind them as graciously as possible, they are not able to do this hence the frustration is starting to emerge. This single thing did not decide the game they were not robbed. The best way to win rugby matches is to play hard and skillfully. Scotland did one of these and not the other and they lost.

2015-10-21T10:03:05+00:00

kezablonde

Guest


I knew that m/f was offside

2015-10-21T05:59:28+00:00

flashman

Guest


Phipps didn't pass the ball at all, after being knocked on by Scottish No20 (who put the shoulder into Phipps by the way), the ball deflected off Phipps shoulder, how that can be called "intentionally playing the ball" is an abuse of language.

2015-10-21T05:34:45+00:00

Mark

Guest


Second WORST ref in the world behind Wayne Barnes

2015-10-21T04:27:00+00:00

goldenboot

Roar Rookie


If people can't be sure of the correct decision after watching one replay, it's rather unreasonable to expect Joubert to make the correct call in real time. He is a human being. Contrast this with the Barnes incident from the past which involved a clear cut forward pass, which was far easier for all to see

2015-10-21T03:07:53+00:00

Red Kev

Roar Guru


Back and to the left Dave_S, back and to the left

2015-10-21T02:41:21+00:00

The Sheriff

Guest


Everyone take a good look at the video, read the Laws and make up your mind. Then: shut up. Joubert is still the second best ref in the World!

2015-10-21T02:37:26+00:00

Jonathan

Guest


Going forward beyond this one game, it seems to me that these offsides laws are just begging to be be revised, so that situations like this one don't occur. There are two problems here, as far as I see it: 1) these rules are so ridiculously complex that even after everyone's seen the replay from multiple angles there is still no agreement. If fans need to sort through 7 different paragraphs of text to understand what laws apply here, and if we actually expect referees to do the same analysis in real time IN THEIR HEADS, then the law is too complicated. 2) The law punishes players from taking a perfectly natural action -- reflexively reaching for a ball they have no reason to know they're not allowed to -- that in no way harms the quality of the game. The obvious solution here is that offside simply should not apply to knock-ons -- if your teammate spills the ball and you fall on it, it's a scrum to the other team. No penalty. Plain and simple. There is no way that penalizing a player for chasing a knock-on is going to stop players from trying to chase knock-ons (in the heat of the moment, how do you know if you're onside or not?), and there is no reason why rugby needs players to stop chasing knock-ons. Let the players play!

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