Wallabies must improve: Cheika

Thorn was a first grade NRL player nothing special..He had great players around him at the Broncos.. He struggled big time in ORIGIN and was dropped..

Republican No - on the contrary, I don't think there's any double standard whatsoever. For instance....... Rugby League - Auckland Warriors joined in 1995. Since that inaugural season, the Warriors haven't been as successful as initially anticipated however, on the international circuit, the Kiwis League team have progressed in leaps and bounds to the point where this year, they have graduated to No 1 ranking. Not bad for a 20yr progress cycle but room for improvement, for sure. Soccer - well, Wellington Phoenix's progress has been lets say, slowly improving but the key word is slowly. There needs to be IMO, a definitive "shot up the rear end" for any opportunity to succeed and perhaps the recent lack of confidence displayed by the Oz Federation with Phoenix's licence application, confirms the lowly status, in Ozzies eyes anyway, of Phoenix' status. Not good at all. Basketball - what can I say?? The Breakers introduction into the NBL has been a god-send. Yes OK, I realise it may have taken a few years to achieve some success but, its not as long as it is taking their League brethren and so far, the Breakers are surely demonstrating some form of superiority, over their Oz counterparts. I mean, 4 cups in the past 5 years must surely be, unheard of. And last but not least - Netball. Our netball girls have given their best over the past decade or two. They have won major titles against their Ozzie neighbours, but the frequency of such success has been, limited to say the least. Nevertheless, their success can perhaps rightfully be measured, in the same context as the WB rugby side against the ABs on the rugger paddock where, there's been a tendency to lose more games, than there are winning. My guess is if the Ozzie competitions want to hold out against admitting NZ teams, then fair enough because, based upon what's happening in the sports samples above where NZ participation is permitted, I really wouldn't blame those competitions if they decided to forbid NZ teams, from entering into their competition. So clearly the issue then becomes, whose double standards are being subject to this discussion?? It must be those kiwis standards for even considering there may be opportunities for its provincial sports teams, to anticipate an invitation to join such illustrious sports competitions, played over in the Western Isles. Then again, it could also provide the answer as to why NZRU are showing some reluctance for allowing any opportunity to admit Oz rugby provinces to play in the ITM rugby competition.....so just to let our Oz brethren understand the current status, please be assured that the advent of the NRC competition, is the best thing that could happen for oz rugby, this side of the black stump. Anyways, right now the SR and 4N rugby competitions, offer a considerable amount of competition and exposure, for all participating Oz sides - just like it offers similar exposure to NZ, SA and Puma sides. Double standards??.....whose double standards???

....individuals playing in the NPC is not the same as being gifted a club in any league. There are heaps of Kiwis playing in our club sides as well, so not a fair analogy, while the S15 is an international comp not a domestic one and akin to the 6 Nations. Australia may be the exception in its largesse of a sovereign nation i.e. NZ because I don't see any Scottish, Irish or Welsh teams included in the English Soccer League for eg, despite being branded GB. Is NZ's sovereign nation status simply semantics?

.....so while I am willing to accept that NZ owes Australian ra ra naught,why then does Australia owe NZ, who assume ongoing membership of our domestic leagues? Rugby League, Soccer, Basketball, Netball, to name a few with more in the pipeline for NZ, is expedient of our own demographics and grassroots, all the while enhancing NZ's status in respective codes. I would have thought the altruism shown by Australian sport towards NZ, would be reciprocated through the only code NZ can potentially assist us in - Rugby Union. NZ Cricket has been hedging at inclusion in our domestic comp for years so perhaps Australian Cricket are the exception in holding out to our poor cousins pleas and like NZ Rugby, simply covet their status too highly in this sport. Clearly a blatant double standard expressed by some here.

Yeah because it considers the impact of whanau (family) connection in relation to your mates, your team, your organization and for the whanau to move forward, everyone within it must move in the same direction. It is the essence of team - working hard for each other, in harmony, without dissent, submerging individual ego for a greater cause which extends to selection and the "No Dickheads" policy. This section is Chapter 6 titled "Whanau" and the Maori proverb is "A muri kia mau ki the kawau maro, whanake ake, whanake ake" which means "Hold to the Spearhead formation of the kawau' and the chapter translation of "No Dickheads - Follow the Spearhead (V-formation)". A quote from Phil Jackson (former coach of the Chicago Bulls BB team) which says; " A great player can only do so much on his own. No matter how breathtaking his one-on-one moves, if he is out of sync psychologically with everyone else, the team will never achieve the harmony needed to win a championship. This is the struggle that every leader faces being how to get members of the team who are driven by the quest for individual glory, to give themselves over wholeheartedly to the group effort." Jackson would go on to quote Rudyard Kipling : "For the Strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack" The concept of Whanau and a No Dickheads policy - "Kia urupu tatou; kaua e taukumekume" meaning "Let us be united, not pulling against one another" is the chapter's by-line. I agree - its an interesting read indeed.

Marto you need to develop those players. League players you mention aren't Thorn.

More meathead mongrels the ARU could target,but i suppose they have no cash... Jamaal Idris ( age 25) Born Auburn, New South Wales, Australia Height 195 cm (6 ft 5 in) Weight 120 kg (19 st ) Martin Kennedy (age 26) Born Lismore, New South Wales, Australia Height 193 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 122 kg (19 st 3 lb) David Klemmer ( age 21 ) Born New South Wales, Australia Height 200 cm (6 ft 7 in) Weight 120 kg Ryan James ( age 24) Born Tweed Heads New South Wales, Australia Height 192 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 115 kg (18 st 2 lb) Tim grant (age 27) Born Penrith, New South Wales, Australia Height 196 cm (6 ft 5 in) Weight 115 kg (18 st 2 lb) Tim Browne (age 26) Born Sydney New South Wales, Australia Height 193 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 114 kg (18st ) Darcy Lussick (age 26) Born Manly, NSW, Australia Height 192 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 114 kg (18st ) Dave Taylor (age 27) Born Rockhampton,Queensland Height 186 cm (6 ft 1 in) Weight 123 kg (19 st 7 )

The thing is, that NZ and SA have easier access to big hard brutes and mongrels, that Rugby League gets here. Leaving aside that they are slightly spindly, chaps like Simmons, Mumm, Carter, Jones can't be turned into mongrels, without damaging their old school ties. When Simmons tried it last year, all he did was do one off stupid fouls.

New Zealand organised a game against the Wallabies in the late 70s to keep the ARU solvent. You guys took the whole gate to stop you going bankrupt. The kiwis often help out your mob.

OB I have just put that book down today after reading it. Very interesting I thought. I wonder has Michael Cheika read it . I reckon he has so would understand the enormity of the task to surpass the ABs. Interesting bit about the V formation which I think where the Haka formation comes from.

Quite right Playmaker. Most of our guys didn't look very Athletic, compared to NZ counterparts

Greg Inglis too....as a lock, not a centre or fullback

ARU wish list Andrew Fifita (age 26) Born (age 26) Blacktown, New South Wales, Australia Height 195 cm (6 ft 5 in) Weight 116 kg (18 st 4 lb) Kane Evans (age 23) Born Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Height 193 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 110 kg (17 st 5 lb) Dylan Napa (age 22) Born Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Height 195 cm (6 ft 5 in) Weight 109 kg (17 st 2 lb) Tony Williams (age 26) Born Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Height 193 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 118 kg (18 st 8 lb) Shannon Boyd (age 23) Born Goulburn, New South Wales, Australia Height 195 cm (6 ft 5 in) Weight 128 kg (20 st 2 lb) Aaron WOODS (age 24) Born Sydney, New South Wales, Australia Height 194 cm (6 ft 4 in) Weight 110 kg (17 st 5 lb)

Plenty of those 6 foot 4 115 kilo aggressive brutes running around in the NRL unfortunatley..

Australian Rugby Union has been slowing down the trickle into the ITM Cup. Blocked Tom Staniforth from the Brumbies so as to bolster the standards in their domestic National Rugby Championship (who dreams up these 'classic' titles)

Agreed. The lineout was under more and more pressure as the tournament progressed, and of note was that Pocock looked to be called upon as a ball runner more than Hooper the longer the tournament went on, on top of already running the rolling maul and carrying the forward pack in breakdown disruption and turnovers. Realistically Pocock and Hooper will never be able to lift their lineout game much, so unless ball running and line breaking significantly improves in that backrow combo then other players who would provide more balance should be looked at.

The Wagtown Express mentioned a statement along the lines of - McCaw was feeling the ill-effects of being stomped on the head and could only answer the interviewer questions.

On the day (but fitness not the issue)

But lacked the skills, fitness , speed, etc. The stats don't tell you that the Wallaby back row is short and it"s the breakdown of the components that is important.

AD - the Aus run-out team for the final were heavier than the ABs - ever so slightly Australia World Cup final 15 Avg age – 28.6 average height 187.6m pack weight 918kg team total 1567kgs All Blacks World Cup final 15 average age 28.8 average height 187.6m pack weight 891kg team total -1561kgs