A-League fans have shot themselves in the foot

@Perry Bridge No. I'm talking about a guy who was attending a Carlton match at Princes Park with his young son. He was standing in the outer in front of the old Hawthorn Members Stand & was punched from behind by at the AFL match. He died at the ground. This was the 1980s.

Okay, so one or two are fine. It's only repeated use that's the issue.

The ticketing was different though, for ACL, as was the security organisation. I don't think saying that it's only a few - when it is, as you agree, 1 at a derby, maybe 1 at a victory match - is being disingenuous.

#FIUL You take the cake dear sir. My reference came from the 2013 English police official warnings about flares and they referred not letting the fact that they'd had no injuries the year before create apathy but that especially given the 2012 death in Bolivia that that reinforced the message that flares - especially as the trend of flares was on the increase - that flares had to be a no go. Do you want a repeat of the 2005 UEFA cup match between Inter Milan and A.C.Milan? I assume not. Notice - the furthest I've gone back here is 11 years. Not 30-40 years ago which in crowd/stadium management terms IS the dark ages. For you to attempt to deflect via a reference to a death via a punch on in the 70s or 80s - which as you'll note since then a wide range of measures have come in - people no longer able to bring own grog to games, no cans, plastic cups, mid strength beer etc; Fully seated/ticketed venues etc; More policy/security than before etc - which is good, there was a pretty bad incident in May 1914 at Princes Park too. By referring back 30-40 years you pretty well reinforce MY message - management and processes have changed a lot in that time but with respect to flares at the soccer it's still the dark ages. I presume you're referring to the tragic death of Robert Dickson (27 or 28 at the time - from Bacchus Marsh) - now - this is a slightly tricky one anyway. Two 17 year old Carlton youths (locals) - were charge with assault in relation to the incident that saw Mr.Dickson pass away. The most severe charge was assault occasioning actual bodily harm and unlawfully inflicting bodily harm. The issue being that he was taken to Royal Melb hospital that night - was released and allowed to go home. But was taken back the next day and went into a coma while in hospital and died almost a month after the assault. The autopsy showed he died from a ruptured cerebal aneurysm - and as such he was found to have died from natural causes. So - be very careful how you use this example for your own purposes.

Look flares are an issue because FFA made it one - that's out of out hands. You ask for parity? How's WSW got a reputation for flares, and others haven't? The issue is repeated flare use - not the odd one or two a season. We don't need our freedoms to actively support our clubs be trodden down on because of the selfish actions of RBB.

You are being a little bit disingenious here. We have flares at every Sydney Derby, quite a few MV matches. All at Pirtek. This is on top of the flares we had in season 2 during our ACL campaign. Yes I recognise the ACL is not an A-league sanctioned event but the FFA still falls in the AFC's jurisdiction. Like I said the flares will come out mostly for away matches and that's partly due to the restrictions in place. That is police, security, marshalls, hatomoto, sniffer dogs, security cameras and ticketed membership. The ticketed membership is interesting because in effect the RBB have boxed themselves in with those restrictions. It cant be a "blow in" as previously claimed for A-league matches as it was in season 1. This is because easier access was available into the RBB from the gates in the corner in the black and white section. Thats why when the gates were closed in season 2 it could only be a member who could light flares in the RBB from season 2. I was in the RBB in season 2 and yes we have had flares as in all seasons since. Not as many but they pop up for the big A-league games. It is also the reason more get lit on away trips as well. But in any case they are only lit by our members when the occasion arises at Pirtek.

you are the best Fuss, keep fighting the good fight. you are always right in my eyes

how is that violin going? must be hard to play with your blinkers on?

flare throwers all good in other ends i take it?

"For the most part" I said Rbb; we're sitting on 1 flare all season I think at Parramatta (in the home end). Don't forget, it was the RBB decision to close themselves off after season 1. This was so that there would not be the opportunity for randoms to come in and misbehave. And since then, it's been a pretty similar pattern - only a few across 2 and a half seasons. When the ACL games were on, different security (i can remember almost begging a security guard to check my bag!!), open ticketing, and bam, flares. You are right about the away trip. Banned members or non-members can get in. it's not just a better opportunity - it's the only opportunity. I think some people imagine that having received their bans the flare lighters just give up and go away.... the reality is these people are still hanging around the club, they just don't go to home matches.

"there was a death in Bolivia in 2012. " So, you've managed to scour the internet for 1 fatality. Whilst that is 1 fatality too many, I don't need to scour the internet - just need to open the newspaper any Monday in Winter - to read about drunks at AFL matches who have bashed people to a pulp. At an AFL (called VFL in those days) match in the 1980s at Princes Park a drunk fan bashed a bloke & killed him. Yes. In the past 50 years, I can only think of 1 incident of crowd violence that killed a spectator a sporting event in Australia. It happened at Aussie Rules. It was caused by a typical violent, AFL thug.

I am sick of this nanny-state mentality and David Gallop's desire to make football "family friendly". Where is David Leyonjhelm when we need him?

Your heading is inaccurate. A-leagues fans are not the general problem - elements of wsw fans are. Deduct points till rbb wake up or player morale plummets after points deducted - either way, great outcome. We don't want a police state atmos at games. Stop wrecking it for everyone else rbb mob.

I will add something further. Even though Parramatta has introduced "effective" security we have still had some issues. My feeling is that while the behaviour at Parramatta is generally better. The flare igniters use the "away" trip as a better opportunity if you will to get their fix. I think there is a conscious decision to concentrate more pyro away from Parramatta and do it on away trips.

Can I just add, They are effective at Parra for the most part. They were clearly woefully ill-prepared at this game.

@Rick Disnick You're a glorified masseuse - most likely massaging flabby muscles in a nursing home. Your comments on: football, business strategy, law, finance .. are that of a simpleton. Your style of writing reminds me of Rita Panahi - another intellectual vacuum, who thinks she's an expert on every subject.

So many poor confused souls on here. No one is advocating the use of flares. In fact it is about .01 p.c of people who choose to engage in this activity. For the Wanderers from a membership of 18,500 that equates to about 20-30 people at max. Everyone else is just a normal football going fan and doesn't engage in this way. So the first things that need to stop are these sweeping generalisations that its all of the RBB. Its not. The next thing that always comes up is this idea of self policing. Its absolutely impossible particularly when you are focused on the game. I have had a flare lit next to me in the past when I used to be in the RBB and there is no chance of finding who it is. But even still its not anyones job as a paying customer to hand someone in. Its your choice if you do or not. The argument here is that you really dont want to get involved. Thats why they hire security, police, hatomoto, sniffer dogs, bag checks and security cameras. Why are they so ineffective in these policies that they also need a form of self policing. I am not going to get involved. Why are they paying these people. Is it so they can be a paid spectator. They need to do a better job and I have every right to also question their performance. The next point is this, there are already harsh penalties for lighting flares, a 5 yr ban. Do you honestly think that these people who light flares really give a stuff if we lose points if they dont care about a 5yr ban. They dont, so if you decide to dock points the situation will only escalate and it will get worse. Just continue to concentrate on catching the few peple who engage in this behaviour. Also if you do dock points then you have to dock points for all clubs which would compromise the integrity of the competition particularly if you applied penalties to one club and not another for the same offence.

Fiul Your defending of the indefensible is admirable for the effort ..........but laughable when you use meaningless statistics to defend it. Stats mean nothing here!

CCM crowd is nearly entirely made up of families as are significant proportions of the crowds at other stadiums.

Go and see someone who has been badly burned by a flare. See if you have an issue then.