Justice for victims of the Hillsborough disaster

Buddy - what an excellent contribution. I wish this comment was the first half of Bradley's article. Buddy's post captures the raggedness of social disorder that dominated UK soccer in the decade leading up to Hillsborough. Bradley's article quite rightly calls out the disgraceful cover-up of the disaster, but doesn't attempt to give any context to the climate in which it this tragedy occurred.

I never said the police were infallibale. Of course there are bads cops out there. I have no problem with people criticising police, providing they do it in a constructive way. However whenever someone resorts to calling police scumbags, pigs, 'f*** da police' or other juvenile insults, it's a fair bet that they are the sort of person who has had one or two brushes with the law.

i think you need some help

I hope charges are laid against those who covered this up. It does highlight we should not always take what the police say as always true. When I was 16 was with a few mates and we drove to the Entrance from Sydney to go to a pub to see a band. On arrival the police searched our panel vans stood on our feet with most wearing thongs... they then said we had two choices we could go back to Sydney or they would start taking the tyre's off the rims to look for drugs ... we left and one of our group was the son of a local magistrate so we told him... He started some action but the reports from the police were nothing like what happened. My local police station at Fairfield was raided once by the Federal Police and many officers were charged turns out those officers charged were some of the areas biggest crooks. This is not to say the police don't do a great job and most are honest but we should be very grateful we have courts as well.

It's this sort of attitude why the victims were blamed for so long. The police are infallible, anyone who disagrees with them or is appalled with their methods must be a criminal, a unionist or worse of all, a Football fan. Thatcherite bollocks at it's worst.

How old were you when you first got a criminal record?

Liverpool fans also talk about being surprised that they didn't have the usual police cordon outside the ground and police enforcement of queueing for the turnstiles, which were standard practice under Mole, and which, together, would've have prevented the crush outside the ground which was a catalyst for the later crush inside. Classic case of inadequate preparation and tunnel vision from the police.

Thanks towser. You say "perhaps" about mole; my understanding is more like "definitely"; under him the protocol was to do exactly that and close the tunnel.

Agreed Buddy. This is just a political feelgood judgement made in another era of life and pretty much meaningless.

Tow Excellent

Stop, for the sake of everyone.....just stop. Your hate doesn't help anyone's cause but your own.

Grew up round the corner from David Duckenfield, never a pal, a bit older than me, but stood at the same bus stop every day going to school(different ones) and chatted briefly on occassions before the bus arrived. Always seemed somewhat aloof to me in our working class area and this was confirmed by older kids who were in the same class at school (days of the 11 plus exam) as him before The Grammar school he went to as a teenager. First hand experience tells me that the Sheffield police were no shrinking violets, when it came to a bit of muscle. There was a certain set of stairs at a particular police station in central Sheffield where people held overnight often fell down. We also had a rhino whipping period by Sheffield police and the culprits were eventually sacked. A couple ended up as bouncers at the local dance hall and I was on the receiving end of a not so gentle nut from one and in the great Sheffield Police tradition , he and another ex copper threw me down the stairs. So given Buddys reminiscing above in the Thatcher era its not hard to understand that little sympathy was given to football supporters by Sheffield police. However this is just another aside to this great football tragedy, because they weren't in charge Duckenfield was. Further investigation on the Sheffield forum reveals that Duckenfield belonged to the funny handshake mob and indeed if you wanted to climb the ladder in the South Yorkshire police Aprons were the go. He was ambitious and the inference is he only got where he was because of the handshake. It was unfortunate also that he only got the Hillsborough semi job because the experienced man usually in charge Brian Mole was transferred because of a brutal prank played on a probationary officer by officers under his watch. All in all given the climate at the time and inexperience at the helm of operations a lethal cocktail and I still cringe when I think of the Leppings Lane end(minus fences) where I stood as a lad on occassions if I wasn't on the Kop with other pals. Perhaps Mole would have had his police direct fans towards the outer pens(which viewing images weren't packed like sardines) away from the central tunnel into the pens that caused the crush, we'll never know. The finger has been pointed at others in Sheffield to cop some blame apart from the police, the council, Wednesday, South Yorkshire ambulance, but in the end though many people lied through their teeth and justice will prevail after 27 years, one can only imagine the torment of the relatives of the 96 waiting for justice in that period. Lets not also forget the despicable Newspaper who helped propogate the lies, Duckenfield may rightly go to jail, will they be punished?

Thanks buddy for your comments (and the one above).

Marron I am not trying to defend or deflect blame regarding the unquiry and outcome. My purpose was to provide a first hand account of what it was like going to watch football during the 70's and 80's. What we witnessed week in and week out I believe directly contributed to the event itself. Many of us witnessed over crowding and crushing but not on such a huge scale. The general public and particularly those that lived in adjacent streets to grounds were terrified of match days. The setting fire to trains, overturning buses, torching cars, violence and vandalism caused the police to react in a certain way and their policing in my experience was very direct and in your face ...met fire with fire, therefore the action they took in April 1989 wasn't too surprising. What has been said and done, the lies and deceit and finally what appears to be the truth is the subject of the main article and similar throughout the media; that isn't my story. However, given that I was a teenager at the time and witnessed a great deal of public disorder, I can hold my hand up and acknowledge that whilst we did not directly cause the disaster, nor were we directly responsible, my generation at least set the scene for some terrible things that took place of which Hillsbrough was the worst.

Agree with the author that it's beyond belief it took so long, luckily the people of Liverpool kept up the campaign. Hope there is more condemnation for the Sun, what they did was really low (although their sales plummeted in the area) The changing of witness statements, police obstruction and MP's behaviour leave a lot to be desired, although the culture during the Thatcher years meant this skullduggery was tolerated, as long as there were 'hooligans' to blame - look like the real hooligans have been outed at last.

I don't care if it is a wide net, as an organisation they are scumbags and deserve no respect from us. The police of today were even complicit in covering the actions of their predecessors and blocking the enquiry. The extensive cover up, the corruption, the victim blaming and closing of ranks was just as disgusting as their actions on match day. Police have been antagonistic, let alone problematic, at football games for decades now, even in Australia, they are now the cause of most actual trouble in the stands. The good thing is that this generationally engraved state of contempt towards football fans has finally bit them in the arse and they will go down in history as the real criminals.

great story there, thanks

thats a wide net you are casting here. so the actions of some police in Yorkshire 27 years ago means we cant cosider the other millions of police in the world as friends of football?