I’ve heard a lot of pontificating from various people of high regard about how we need a second division of the national league, and how we need it now.
They cite the FFA Cup as evidence. People talk about souvlaki and cevapi like they’ve only just been invented and we talk about our ethnic clubs like we didn’t shun them when the A-League took the place of the National Soccer League.
Get them all in, they say. Sydney Olympic, Marconi, Melbourne Knights, it’ll be just like the old days.
But it just can’t happen, which is why FFA is stonewalling on the issue of promotion and relegation and instead talking about expansion – they don’t want to break hearts.
Let me preface this by saying I’ve got a foot in both camps. I have been involved in the NSW state league since before it was the new-fangled “National Premier Leagues NSW” and I’ve seen first-hand how some of these clubs are run.
Some of my best friendships have come through my state league involvement and I hold APIA Leichhardt in particular close to my heart. They are, like all their NSW counterparts, a wholehearted and spirited club. I know the people involved there and at the other NPL NSW clubs are desperate to be involved in any second tier national competition.
But the vast majority of these clubs are run on a shoe-string, and they are held together by a small number of diehards, often volunteers.
Here’s a club tracksuit, thanks for your hard work, enjoy the off-season.
The players have day jobs. A lot of them are skilful and talented enough to be playing professionally for the existing A-League teams, indeed many hold out the hope of playing as professionals for their current clubs.
But where’s the money going to come from? Who is going to pay these guys a full-time wage so they don’t have to go back to teaching, labouring, or whatever else they do to put food on the table?
TV will fix it all, they say, just look at the FFA Cup.
Will it?
I covered the Sydney United 58 v Sydney FC match in the FFA Cup last season at Edensor Park. The old place was pumping. It was just like the old days, etc etc.
Australian-Croatian 20-somethings who’ve never been to King Tom in their life turned out in droves. It’s a boutique thing, y’know?
“I just hope some of them come back for the game this weekend,” a United veteran told me that night.
I was there the next weekend, when United played a run-of-the-mill NPL match at home. Away from the bright lights and television cameras. Nobody showed up.
Kingston Heath was heaving on Tuesday night for Bentleigh Greens against Melbourne Victory. Great souvlaki, apparently. But who of those fans were there when Bentleigh hosted Bulleen Lions, or Pascoe Vale?
There is absolutely no doubt about the clubs’ commitment to the idea. But externally? Is the interest really there?
If we showed an “A-League 2” match tomorrow between Melbourne Knights and Blacktown City, would anyone watch?
The FFA Cup is fantastic – but it’s not evidence these clubs can look after themselves in a second tier national competition.
There’s enough trouble in paradise as it is – the last thing we need to do now is to throw another 10 underfunded, understaffed clubs into the mix.
They’re not stupid over at FFA, despite what some may have you believe. That’s why they’re keeping counsel on any idea of a national second tier until we’re really ready.
For the record, I’m all for it, and I’d love it for my mates at APIA, United, Blacktown City and Rockdale.
But we’re just not ready.
Nemesis
Guest
Matt, you seem convinced the push for a national 2nd division is being driven by NPL clubs who want promotion to the A-League. In your capacity as a football journalist would it be possible to talk to the Sydney United CEO to get further information? This is a very hot topic at the moment and it would be good to get a clearer understanding about what the NPL clubs actually want in the next 5, 10, 20 years.
Matt Connellan
Expert
Indeed - but obviously he's talking about expansion of the A-League. And he had this to say RE a second tier... "Postecoglou does not address a possible two-tier system, with promotion and relegation, which is impossible until 2034 at the earliest given the licenses of A-League clubs."
Matt Connellan
Expert
The entire point of a national second tier would be to allow promotion and relegation - that's the very idea.
Nemesis
Guest
The point would be to give 300 Aussies exposure to the highest level of football outside the A-League. Playing in a national league against the best other semi-professionals in Australia is far better than playing against the best in your state. Just like playing against the best in your state is better than playing against the best in your town, or suburb. A national 2nd division has nothing to do with demand from spectators. It is being demanded by suppliers (NPL clubs) who want to evolve beyond state boundaries. It's probably the same imperative that made NRL and AFL expand beyond state boundaries. Football wants to expand beyond state boundaries for a 2nd division. Football was the first sport to start a national top tier competition. We do things differently. Don't compare football to other sports, we are different. We have massive overseas club competitions, international competitions for local clubs and tournaments for national teams. In my opinion, the A-League needs a maximum of 14 teams (I think 16 will leave too many clubs stuck in the middle each season out of relegation zone and not good enough for trophies).
Working Class Rugger
Guest
If a national second division isn't initiated for the purpose of promotion/relegation then what exactly would be its point? Why would current state league clubs want to take on the added costof travel and accommodations etc. their squad when they have far more cost effectivr structures in place at present? Would be a talent ID and development pathway? Wasn't the model adopted by the FFA when launching the A-League chosen as a direct movement away from the old club landscape? Why go back? Again, where is the money going to come? As per the article the FFA Cup is a great showpiece but not indicative of the interest that exists so it's questionable whether it would draw enough TV money as a stand alone. I'm not sure who it was but they are probably pretty close in their estimates. To compete clubs will need to provide surieties in the millions of dollars. How many could realistic do this. The ultimate question should be, why do we even need promotion relegation or a national 2nd division? Because it's how it's done else where? So. Name one other national sport8ng code in Australia that has promotion/relegation or a national 2nd division? You could note the NRC but that's more a post season rep competition. Wouldn't working toward a vibrant 12/14/16 team A-League be more beneficial? Does not having the same structures as elsewhere make us any less legitimate internationally?
pete4
Guest
Interestingly in Japan there is a criteria for J-League entry "Clubs without a J1 Club License are not eligible for promotion to the J1 League even if they finish in an automatic promotion or promotion playoff spot" http://www.jleague.jp/en/news/article/7050/
steve
Guest
They will just have to watch them in an A2 league you say? You, I and everyone else knows that simply wont happen.
Nemesis
Roar Guru
$10m to underwrite what exactly? Why would a national 2nd division in football comprising teams who are already operating in State Leagues need $10m funding from Govt? Provided the teams remained semi-pro, the only extra cost from moving from State to National would be travel costs for maximum 13 interstate trips.
John Thor
Guest
I think we in Australia we could try to do something different to what the rest of the world does in terms divisions. The idea I think could work would be to have the current 10 team top division made up of the current clubs and in the future add or promote two more teams. The second division made up of 10 National premier teams creating A-League 2. The A-league teams would play each other 3 times as they currently do, having a A-league season that is 27 games long. The A-league 2 clubs would play each other home and away creating an 18 games season. The out of the box thinking which would be unique to the rest of the world would be to have a cross over in the season. This cross over would be played either midweek in the months of January to March, before the A-league 2 season commences (where the NPL season exist now) or during August and September before the A-League season starts. The A-league teams play each one of the A-league 2 clubs at the A-league 2 clubs home grounds. This would be for competition points, which count towards both league tables. This would create a 37 game season for the A-League and a 28 game season for the A-League 2. This would create an extra 100 games, which can be used for gaining funding for the leagues. If a team regularly performs in the second division in terms of wins, crowds and financial management they should be promoted into the A-league. There will be no relegation from the A-league as I feel every major region within Australia needs to have national representation. Only the bottom team in the A-League 2 will be relegated and the winner of the national premier league would gain promotion. The benefits to a system such as this are as follows • Extending the season dramatically • Exposing smaller teams and areas to top level football in oz • Promotion and relegation from A League 2 to national premier league (1 to 2 teams a year) • National premier league play off games televised. • Making the season more interesting variation of teams played by A-league clubs • Connecting with old NSL clubs • Expose youth player to top level of play in Australia • Give a chance for old NSL clubs to perform on a national stage • Break even point will be much lower for teams in the A-league 2, therefor being able to have teams in smaller areas such as Hobart, Fremantle, Townsville and Darwin. • Creating more value for both leagues, which would hopefully lead to bigger TV deals which could be used to increase the A-league salary cap as well as used to fund the second division • Something unique in the sporting landscape within Australia
Donde es Fuss
Guest
I will bet my bottom dollar they won't see it
Donde es Fuss
Guest
Because their sustainability is based upon popularity You gave not thought this through C-
Donde es Fuss
Guest
There's really only 2 states that matter. If you are in the others you are just camping out Think about it
Paul
Guest
" The A League licenses currently held dont allow that until 2034 anyway" that is incorrect.
Donde es Fuss
Guest
Cambrai- there's a very good reason. Have w think about it and get back to me
Donde es Fuss
Guest
A new and fascinating topic
Jack Russell
Roar Guru
I don't know about Ice hockey, but Hockey and Water Polo get large government grants (being Olympic sports where we are a serious chance at a medal), and in any case both those leagues are incredibly short in comparison. Baseball is funded by the Americans. In the end, it's up to someone to put the money up to underwrite it - and you're probably looking at a minimum of $5 million. Possibly north of $10 million. Without that no club would participate because if it flops it could send them to the wall. And if there's no prospect of promotion, it would flop.
Gavin
Guest
I havent really read many comments but... Obviously promotion and relegation wont work now and anyone who believes so is naive. The A League licenses currently held dont allow that until 2034 anyway. Though there is hope. I went to Wolves vs Sydney FC in the FFA cup and there was a very healthy crowd, particularly for a wednesday night. But did people turn up for their NPL match that weekend? No. There are some great players in the a league and that is a big draw card. We need to be working on a 15 - 20 year plan to introduce promotion/relegation. Anything less is just not good enough and the league will not progress. I dont know if people in australians will still support their teams in the second tier if/when they get relegated but we need to move towards this regardless.
punter
Guest
DOUBLE POST!!!!
pete4
Guest
12 clubs is the right number for the A-League you potentially get 33 rounds of football (August-May) Any other clubs will have to come up from A2 eventually. But keep the A-League at 12 clubs
Fuss2pointzero
Guest
A sage article which is long overdue in this debate. Grass roots support for soccer in this land is grossly exaggerated. Several a league clubs are actually in desperate straits, none more so than the Mariners who have few fans, not much money and an unfinished stadium. Brisbane and Newcastle are also having financial issues. The idea of promotion and relagation or even expansion in the next decade is laughable.