I’m surprised at the level of bleating from the Irish at the alleged rough house tactics of the All Blacks in the aftermath of the weekend’s blockbuster in Dublin.
Two incidents in particular have raised Irish ire among sections of the media and past and present players.
In the 11th minute All Black openside Sam Cane clattered into Ireland centre Robbie Henshaw with a tackle that started at the shoulders and appeared to finish with a clash of heads.
The collision ended the impressive Henshaw’s night and had the full house braying for a yellow card, or worse for Cane.
However, the TMO ajudged the All Black to have used an arm to ‘wrap’ in the tackle that was high but initially below head height. Although there was deemed to be no indiscretion, referee Jaco Peyper penalised Cane anyway. And since, the All Black has been cited and will be up before the judiciary this week.
As is his teammate, centre Malakai Fekitoa, who was rightfully binned when he made a clumsy head high tackle on Ireland left wing Simon Zebo that had the commentators seeing red nine minutes into the second half.
Former Ireland lock Neil Francis used his column in the Irish Independent to hit out at the All Blacks’ “cynicism”.
He said Cane “shoulder-charged” Henshaw, “an act which left the Irish centre in distress and twitching on the ground”.
“The tackle that I saw was a shoulder charge which ended in contact with Henshaw’s face,” Francis wrote.
“Irrespective of whether Cane attempted to complete a wrap is irrelevant – the point of contact was shoulder to face and that is a red card.”
Francis claimed Fekitoa’s tackle of Zebo was “also worthy of a red”.
He went on to say the All Blacks, “under the sort of pressure that they had to deal with here and at home, resorted to rugby of the lowest common denominator and they put in a cynical performance which pushed the boundaries too far.
“They were determined to win at all costs.”
John O’ Sullivan of the Irish Times had similar sentiments, writing that “Cane hurtled towards Robbie Henshaw looking to use his body weight as a missile to legitimately explode between the shoulder blades of the Irish centre.
“What’s the difference between running 20-metres and blindsiding a player at a ruck by thrusting a shoulder into their body, prone or otherwise, and running 20-metres flat out to hit someone, who is unsighted, full force in the back? One is illegal, the other legitimate but both outcomes are potentially dangerous.”
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen got a tad tetchy when Irish TV reporter Clare MacNamara repeatedly questioned his team’s rugged approach in a post-match interview.
Hansen’s initial response to her line of enquiry about the “dangerous” incidents: “This is a moving game. The first one was a head clash, there were no arms involved; that’s all. The one on the far side was obviously a little high (over) the shoulder but I don’t think there is any malice in it.”
But when repeatedly needled about the perceived rough play he snapped back: “I’m not sure where you’re going with this. Do you want me to tell you that we’re a dirty side or something? Is that what you’re saying, or…?”.
To which the answer was a meek “no”.
The reality is that with Fekitoa’s yellow, on top of the sin binning of a lacklustre Aaron Smith for a questionable offside at a ruck earlier in the first half, the All Blacks were a quarter of the game with just 14 men. In massive matches such as this one, that’s a serious disadvantage to the depleted team, whether or not it shows up on the scoreboard.
And surely punishment enough?
It’s a shame we’re not focussing more on what was a magnificent, brutally hard, utterly absorbing and exhilarating Test match.
The rugby world very rarely gets to witness a chastened, desperate All Black side attempting to atone for a loss. But that’s what we had in store on Sunday morning AEST thanks to Ireland’s historic heroics in Chicago a couple of weeks ago.
Ireland had not beaten the men in black in 111 years of trying previous to that epic encounter.
On Sunday, in front of a braying, expectant sold out Aviva Stadium crowd, they had the chance of lowering the World Champs’ colours twice in 14 days.
All week in the lead up All Black players spoke of how coach Steve Hansen had submitted them to a brutally frank and honest appraisal of both their preparation and performance in the loss that was deemed well below team standards.
While stressing that Ireland were by far the better team on the day, some All Blacks spoke of being “embarrassed” by their own efforts to quell the green tide that surged over the top of them that day. Such self-seething can only produce one type of All Black response. An utterly ruthless one.
The Irish too, were equally desperate to prove to the rugby world that Chicago wasn’t an aberration and to deliver their home fans a cherished All Black scalp at home. While they didn’t achieve the latter, they certainly made good on the former in Dublin.
The bone-crunching game lived up to the spine-tingling anticipation. The All Blacks showed their lethal intent right from the kick off when they hung onto the ball for 13 phases and three minutes before man-of-the-match Beauden Barrett sent Fekitoa racing over the line from a brilliant long-range kick pass.
Three minutes later Barrett was the star again, this time somehow keeping the ball between the best forward on the park, Ireland’s rampaging openside Sean O’Brien and the goal-line to deny what looked like a certain try for the home side.
This set the tone for an utterly pulsating affair, typified by monstrous defence from both sides with the brilliance of Barrett and slightly better All Black conditioning and finishing the main points of difference in the 21-9 win to the visitors.
The excitable Irish TV commentators were spot-on when they said that the two Tests against Ireland were the toughest assignments the All Blacks had faced this year.
Toughness is a hallmark of Irish rugby. Of that I have first-hand experience having played a season there, for the University of Limerick Bohemians club 14 years ago.
Limerick is a flinty, hard-edged town that has produced flinty, hard-edged rugby players for Munster and Ireland over generations. The city, on the banks of the Shannon River on the country’s drizzly West Coast, is the only place in the Emerald Isle where rugby sits above GAA sports hurling, gaelic football and soccer, as the number one sport.
They are simply mad for it. I got a sense of this not long after landing when the first stop from the airport was a visit to Thomond Park to pay homage to the scene of Munster’s fabled victory over the All Blacks in 1978 – still the sole victory by any Ireland team over the All Blacks on Irish soil.
They’re tough as well as mad.
We didn’t start team trainings until 7.30pm. By mid-season, in the depths of an Irish winter, the ground was a virtual tundra by that time of night. The inevitable day’s rain had frozen into a permafrost that your sprigs literally had to break in during the warm up.
After a few scrums and lineouts the field had been whipped into a muddy slop just in time for the opposed session between the firsts and seconds. Ancient old enmities and fresh grievances were squared off and re-ignited every week on those soggy pitches late into the night. All soon forgotten after a lukewarm shower with slightly less warm pints of the black gold in our mitts.
It was in the warm glow of those magic moments – amid the incessant mick taking and gentle humour as the Guinness prised open short quips and tall stories – when it all made sense.
Such wonderfully passionate, durable and honest rugby people. Who played hard and tough and left all of it on the field.
That’s the Irish I know and love.
GoAheadMakeMyDay
Guest
From what I have read and heard about these 11 so-called citings involving NZ. It was the Irish management that asked for them to be reviewed. I note that NZ management didn't bother, even the one of an Irish forward slamming his forearm down on a NZ prop.....plus the obvious head strangle on Beauden Barrett. I guess Irish management are a bit soft or over the top on the referrals aye!
ClarkeG
Guest
Why would the above comment be again awaiting moderation. Please don't delete it a 2nd time.
ClarkeG
Guest
Yeah he is in touch all right.Just shows what a flawed tool the TMO process is. Do you have the link for the Murphy try. But the rub of the green goes both ways does it not. Alleged knock on at lineout leading to Murphy try. No clear and obvious evidence thus try given. Stander obstruction on Franks leading to Murray try.
Paul Bailey
Guest
The All Blacks are a dirty team. Aaron Smith was yellow-carded, whether you agree with the decision or not, he was out for 10 minutes. During his absence, the Irish had the scrum put in put in close to the ABs tryline, and had the shunt on. What comes out of the ABs playbook? Blindside flanker Liam Squire illegally breaks his bind and disrupts the Irish attacking opportunity. How many times do we cynical fouls from the ABs when they are under pressure? Squire should have also been carded. Tell me it's not systematic and cynical. And Fekitoa's attempt to behead Zebo was borderline red card material. Again, Ireland was hard on attack and threatening the ABs line. No-one can doubt the ABs commitment to winning, each one of them will take a yellow card for the team. But I am sick of scoring opportunities being blighted by the professional foul. I want to watch rugby. I would like to see either a rule change or a change in interpretation to reduce the impact of the cynical foul in rugby.
Wardad
Guest
Well I am on all those forums Bakkies and the Kiwis are responding to the unfair unjustified comments not instigating them .And yes there are thousands of anti ABs comments on the Guardian for starters most from Irish fans who have just signed up to those forums to complain .
Daire Thornton
Guest
Yes obviously the photo shows Smith in touch before he put the ball down. http://www.imageno.com/xhy6o27ejgpjpic.html I dont care if the TMO called it a try or not. Im just responding to the ridiculous claim that Ireland got the rub of the green.
davSA
Guest
Truth is it was a brutal tough game. Everything that test rugby should be. Ireland have not played with this kind of intensity for a long long time . They will be a better team for it in the long run. Bodes very well for the lions in NZ as a number of these Irishmen will surely be in that side.They will have learnt as the Boks have always known that you can dominate the stats and the collisions but no team is better at converting opportunities into points than the All Blacks. NZ won the game but Ireland took more out of it. Both teams would have been pretty sore the next morning. Well done to both sides.
frisky
Guest
Your judgement on the Cane incident is very partisan and irrational. The TMO confirmed that the damage was caused by a head clash and that arms were used in the tackle, and that the tackle was shoulder high. Even the Irish TV commentators were puzzled why the penalty was awarded on the basis of that information. The refereee seemed to spend a good portion of the match making inconsistent decisions after being forced by teh TMO to award the Barret try. What was missed by both the ref and the TMO was the fact that it should have been a penalty try as the tackler O’Brien was trying to remove Barrett’s head from his shoulders in that desperate tackle.
frisky
Guest
Can someone explain why Smith was deemed offside in his YC incident. The ball was out of the ruck when he kicked it. Was he too quick off the mark? The TMO and the ref made a curious compromise decision with the Cane collision. The TMO confirmed that the damage was caused by a head clash, and that arms were used in the tackle, and the tackle was shoulder high. i.e. legal. The ref originally was thinking of a YC or worse thinking that the damage was from a high tackle, so after the correction from the TMO he settled for a penalty. A compromise decision? Even the Irish commentators were surprised, asking repeatedly that “if the tackle was shoulder high, why was it a penalty” My feeling was that the ref was trying to even the ledger from being forced by theh TMO to award Barret’s try despite obviously feeling that he may have been held up over the line. He was trying to balance the ledger for quite some time afterwards by penalising only the AB but forgiving teh Irish illegalities, e.g. the knock-down of a pass which would have led to Dagg’s try. Normally a penalty and ususally a YC. Instead his decision was a scrum. Not a balanced performance.
Kirky
Roar Rookie
COCONUT! The way I see it, it was really no more than an exhibition game because there were no ranking points involved and the only people that were concerned about the game of Rugby in Chicago was the owners of Soldier Field who pay the bills and a few Americans who look at the game as a novelty no less. It was a strange arrangement, no doubt about it as most Kiwis weren't overly fussed as to who the hell won and they wouldn't have minded too much if in the unlikely event, the Irish won, because apart from having their pride dented, the All Blacks were reasonably content to have been turned over by the Irish.as they were a Rugby side who the Kiwis have as a rule a good thing going as friends etc. In other words, ''if we have to get done by any side and end our run of success, let it be the Irish" ~ that would've been the mindset I'm sure. There is no doubt the All Blacks on the day took the game lightly indeed and paid for that mindset by losing, ~ But at the same time, you'd have to say that there is no way in the World that the Kiwi Selectors would intentionally go into any Test match with the team 'consist' such as it was if it was a game that really mattered,, as there were players playing out of position and because of that, the players official possie' was compromised by being filled by a second ranked player, and that's another reason they didn't or couldn't play well. Not having seen the game as yet even as it wasn't classed as important enough an event to broadcast in Australia I can't comment on the finer points or quality of the game and it's protagonists because of that. There is no doubt though that the Ireland boys went into that game with a far different agenda than the Kiwis; did and by all accounts played well to win, something I learned the next day in the Kiwi Rugby News, and I was really surprised when I saw the All Blacks had been beaten, but I didn't give the result much time of day as it didn't mean much, but obviously the Irish thought that because they tipped the All Blacks over in Chicago it would only mean that the same game would apply to beat the All Blacks in the next game, that's all it'd take to ''do it again",~ but they must've realised that the All Blacks are not the number 1 side for just turning up to play,, ~ they had to lift their intensity drastically which was the case and the Irish although they played very well indeed, were never ever going to win that game so, ~ it could be said they lost two games in a row to the Irish, ~ they wouldn't have lived with themselves, so in their minds 'justice prevailed'! So that's my take on it Coconut and Poth Ale, and whether I be right or wrong really matters not a bit as the points are on the board, ~ The ones that matter that is!
ClarkeG
Guest
Lets say there is a still photo of Ben Smiths try showing he was in touch (No doubt you can provide a link) - what will it prove and how will it help. It will not help because its too late for the TMO. The TMO was asked to check if Smith was in touch before he grounded the ball.There was no clear and obvious evidence to say he was - there was no question over grounding so the try had to be given. What will your photo prove. Unless the photo shows Smith in touch before the ball is grounded then it proves zilch.
Glen Gavin
Guest
Irrespective of the result Ireland are a team on the UP. They proved it against South Africa, when their depth was tested and now with the emphatic win in the USA. Both England and Ireland will be legitimate contenders come rwc. Collectively they are learning, how its done. The last 2 Irish games had a Lions intensity about it. Well done to both sides, as a neutral, it was a fantastic. We wont speak of my native South Africa, we now dream of these dizzy heights.
P2R2
Roar Rookie
he didnt get anything - muppet - so much for the citing.....what is this, a game of tiddly-winks or a robust, hard, physical game for men.
P2R2
Roar Rookie
oh for crying out loud...my Irish great grandfather is turning in his grave over this pahlava...get a grip and move on. You say he is 'bullying' - let me see; he said" ... “I’m not sure where you’re going with this. Do you want me to tell you that we’re a dirty side or something? Is that what you’re saying, or…?”.- now let me analyse the words, the nuance, the thrust, the fact of the matter....where in that statement is there any suggestion of 'bullying' - I think the Irish are not doing themselves proud on this....Tony Johnson wrote a piece for SA Rugby about some aspects of the game that YES the ABs owned and acknowledge but moved on - in particular he talked about Barret's try and Sexton's tackle, he opined, had the TMO said it was NO TRY then the question to be asked, was the tackle Sexton did warrant a PENALTY TRY .it was no worse or less than Fekitoa's - so what gives??? MOVE ON!!!
Jerry
Guest
Go on, let's see these photos.
Daire Thornton
Guest
In the first test Ben Smith's try was in touch. There are photos on the internet that prove it. Ireland's first try was grounded by Murphy in front of the ref. He saw the grounding and therefore didnt question it. Again there are photos on the internet that prove that. Ireland didnt get "the rub of the green". If anything the Smith Try should have been disallowed. all others were fine.
Daire Thornton
Guest
Typically biased article. It isnt just the Irish media that consider the AB performance dirty: Stuff.co.nz ran an article that condemnded the ABs foul play: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opinion/86718670/mark-reason-world-rugby-must-cane-the-dublin-headhunters Similarly Matt Williams (An Australian) wrote a piece that referees are afraid to sanction the ABs who received their last red card in the 1960s: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/86767126/referees-too-scared-for-their-careers-to-be-harsh-on-all-blacks-says-top-coach The UK media also wrote pieces on the AB foul play: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/11/21/brutal-all-blacks-claim-revenge-over-ireland-but-lose-high-moral/ The citing commissioner: ... themselves considered the ABs to be dirtier because they reviewed 12 incidents in the game. 11 were by the ABs with two citings, one deemed worthy of a red card. The referees across two tests: considered NZ the more ill disciplined side awarding 24 penalties against them vs 8 for them. The main issue the Irish media have is that World Rugby issued a communication to all referees prior to the November series that stated: be “strict when it comes to tackles, charges, strikes or kicks that make contact above the shoulder line and to favour firm sanctions for offenders, up to and including red cards for severe examples”. Cane’s shoulder made direct contact with Henshaw’s face and KO’d him cold.Based on World Rugby’s own laws this tackle should have been sanctioned. http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/adrumm/world-rugby-issue-new-laws-dictate-referees-eve-second-round-autumn-fixtures/ Some very biased views and poor analysis on the incident on this forum.
47aCollect
Guest
analysis from an interested viewer Date: November 6th 2016. Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin, Ireland. Fixture: International Rugby Test. Host: Ireland. Opposition: New Zealand All Blacks. Task: Fixture Analysis. Analyst: IM. 1. 7 minutes 57 secs. Phase play - Ruck in front of post. New Zealand defending Infringement: Neck roll by Ireland 7 on NZ 8. Nothing happened. 2. 12 minutes 25 seconds. Ireland 14 deliberately knocked the ball on as NZ 10 made a clean break and passed to NZ 15 who had the tryline open to him. 14 was the last line of defense for Ireland. Should be a penalty try to NZ and yellow card to Ireland 14 for professional foul. 3. 20 minutes 26 seconds. Neck roll on NZ 2 by Ireland 15 right in front of AR. No reports no penalty. Before that another deliberate knock on by Irteland 15 I did not see anything is the name of the game here for referee and AR. 2 consecutive infringements by the same player went unpunished. 4. 22 minutes 40 seconds Scrum. Ireland 1. Loosehead prop boring inwards causing scrum to go sideways and Ireland 3 tighthead prop side to collapse. NZ's scrum was penalised for pulling back. Ireland's second 3 pointer. 5. 25 minutes. Ireland 7 won the ball from a ruck off his feet. No release of the tackled player and you cannot put your hands in when the tackle turns into a ruck. It was ok according to useless referee. 6. 30 minutes 09 seconds. Ireland 8 early detached from scrum and tried to play the ball off his feet from underneath their props.Deliberately done, so professional foul and sin bin. Penalty to the All Blacks in a kickable position. Nothing happened. 7. 35 minutes 35 seconds. Tackle turned to a ruck Ireland 2 still playing the ball with his hands and off his feet. Again nothing was done about it. 8. Scrum and Ireland 1 illegal scrummaging technique. Should be penalised and offer a warning. Nothing happened. Second Half. 9. 40 minutes 47 seconds Ireland 13 entered the ruck from the side to clean out NZ 7. No penalty. No nothing. 10. 42 minutes 11 seconds. Ireland 5 came from the side to clean out at ruck. NZ 3 was on ground lying face up and Ireland 5 dropped on him with an elbow. Deliberate foul and dangerous play on a player who is defenseless on the ground. Fortunately he was not injured. RED CARD offence. Again nothing happened. 11. 46 minutes 25 seconds. Ireland 9 deliberately slapped the ball down from NZ 2 who was acting halfback at the ruck. worse than what NZ 9 got sin binned for in the first half. Nothing happened. 12. 56 miinutes 04 seconds Ireland 13 tackled NZ 15. No clear release in the tackle. Ruck was formed Ireland 13 still played the ball off his feet and got the turnover. NZ 15 was penalised for not releasing and gave Ireland their last 3 points. Very very poor ferereeing. Penalty should have been for no clear release of tackled player and hands in the ruck and not supporting his own weight. 13. 58 minutes 39 seconds NZ 9 won the ball cleanly as a turnover in a tackle. Got penalised for not been on his feet. Very strange as he was the one standing and 2 Ireland players were on the ground trying to pull him down. Another crap decision. 14. 61 minutes 29 seconds Ireland 19 on the 10 meter line close to the sideline had NZ 8 in a neckroll and continue on coming from the side to disrupt the ball. He looked suspiciously at the referee and play continued. Again nothing happened. 15. 77 minutes 49 seconds Ireland 9 with hands on the ground protecting the ball nullifying any contest. Should be penalty To NZ. 16. 80 minutes 08 seconds. Ireland 15 tackle on NZ 21 and held on stopping him fro playing the ball . slowed down the NZ team's attack. Like always in this game, nothing happened. NB. the sin binning of Aaron Smith was wrong as it was general play and he was on his feet when he tried to play the ball. Ireland 10 should have been in the bin for the dangerous high tackle on NZ 10 in in goal. Restart of play should have been a penalty kick to NZ. NZ 7 did nothing wrong at all with the tackle on Ireland 12.. Considering all these the most accurate penalty conceded count should have been; PENALTIES CONCEDED Ireland - 19 New Zealand - 4.
Kirky
Roar Rookie
Clarke mate! `Manager Kearney was one pissed off manager indeed as they were in no doubt after the Chicago game they would kick All Black butt next time up, ~ again!
Kirky
Roar Rookie
ClarkeG ~ Check my post above mate, pretty much sums it all up!