Why is nobody talking about John Wall?

Amare was out for 2006. I think you need to look at Nash's career overall. He goes from arguably the 3rd best player on 2004 DAL losing in 1st round 4-1 to a non-contender. His old team get better by essentially replacing him with Terry. He joins PHO at age 30, an age where players are already retired or on their decline. He seemed to maybe get a better, but barely if any. The system was just perfect for him. Marion/Amare were great players without Nash as well. I'm not convinced Nash was better than Amare either, and Marion was certainly a much better two-way player. Wall is a better scorer and much better all-around player. His assists are amazing and that's without AS teammates and a D'antoni system. Wall isn't a media darling nor a great story though, which often drives MVP voters. Nash was never a serious candidate for MVP until 2005. Coincidence? I think not. The main thing I'm saying and what we now see is how awful it was for Nash to win MVP. We have PGs playing better almost every year than Nash ever played, and most of them aren't close to winning MVP, which is usually right. 2005 was a down year for MVP, no doubt, but Nash still had no business winning that year, and especially not in 2006 with what Kobe did. There isn't an MVP winner I could ever think of even remotely as bad as Nash. If you can, I'd like to hear who. There's been other bad picks before, but not like Nash. Dirk in 2007 was bad, but he was coming off of the Finals and led his team to 67 wins. Rose was weak in 2011, but he led his team to nba best record without another AS teammate. Nash wasn't even one of the top 2 guards in the West in 2005. And he somehow wins the MVP, that's a joke. Nash benefited from essentially the same assist keeping as we have now, and overall assists are down from the past, too. Kobe was far and away the best player in the league in 2006, and easily deserved MVP. He only finished 4th and I think he was left off of some ballots if I remember correctly. Nash doesn't play a lick of defense, and his stats were extremely weak compared to the history of MVP winners. Paul is very overrated like Nash. If Nash was truly MVP, he would've won at least one title. He played with multiple for most of his career and never made one Finals. Similar to Paul, who's had a lot of great teammates. Paul has never made one CF. He's certainly a very good player, but we shouldn't put him in the very top echelon of players ever.

Amare was there I thought... Nash's stats didn't reflect truly the impact he would have over a game. Similar to Chris Paul. Nash controlled the game. I don't think you could ever say John Wall controlled the game. Statistically it's also difficult because the assist determination has also been changed. It is far easier to register an assist now than ever before (thus the numbers have skyrocketed per team). All I was defending was Nash bagging. He had two great years and doesn't deserve the vitriol he gets for winning MVP. There's been worse injustices in MVP voting than Nash winning by getting loads of 2nd & 3rd votes

Wall is having a great season no doubt, his problem he plays for Washington no one gives a crap about Washington which is stupid as they have a fairly good team and when healthy are better than a few other East seeds (looking at you Toronto). Wall has always put up solid numbers and done his job, it is just the rest of the team didn't help. The other knock on him is you have to stand out above everyone else in the top echelon of the NBA and he is no where close, When we have at least 3-4 point guards who could all be argued as being better this year and then another 3-4 forwards and big men he wont get a look in for the MVP. One issue against him is a lot of people talk about his attitude issues, he and Beal have a rocky relationship and he hates seeing all these other guys he thinks he is better than on bigger money,. Wall great player but just doesn't stand out enough to be in a MVP conversation.

I think we do have decent defensive stats. Everyone realizes how great Leonard is defensively. It's just that offense is more important than defense, individually. Harden and RW to a lesser extent get a bad rep for defense. True, Harden often doesn't try on defense, but at times, he I've seen him play very good defense. He's also leading the 4th best team in the nba with Patrick Beverley as his #2. That seems much more impressive than what Leonard is doing, but I can see a case for Leonard over Harden. RW gambles a lot, also true, but these are often good gambles, and sometimes gambling is good for defenses; otherwise, offenses are so good and can pick apart defenses. RW is an absolute pest on defense. Leonard might have better 3 pt shooting, but I doubt anyone would say he's a better shooter. There's a lot more to it than just looking at pct. KD's TS% is much better. Leonard's is barely better than Harden's. Leonard is just much more wide open than KD/Harden. Different systems. SA is still very deep, and still quite talented. Their #3-5 guys are aging and not in their primes, but they're all future HOFers(Pau, Ginobili, Parker), that's a very solid #3-5 guys. LA is a legit #2 guy. Pop is arguably the GOAT for coaches. No excuses for Leonard. He's won one playoff series in 2 years as the 'guy.' I need to see a lot more from him before I claim him as the MVP. What exactly has Anderson/Gordon done before this year? Losing Howard amazingly seems like an addition, but that means Capela/Harrell/old Nene as centers. These guys were nothing before this year. Harden's making them look much better than they really are. And how is it arguable than RW has improved his team? He lost KD/Ibaka. OKC would be the worst team in the league if RW was off it, or slightly better than BKN. OKC looks completely lost when RW isn't on the court. Kawhi deserves attention for sure, but I see him RW, Harden, and KD all ahead of him, as it seems most people do, meaning Kawhi deserves the least amount of attention.

I just think if we had decent defensive stats, Kawhi would stand out much more than he does. Harden literally plays half the game on some nights...all offense and no defense. Westbrook is also guilty of poor defense and gambling on steals. Kawhi guards the opponents best player on defense, then drives much of the Spurs offense. His 3pt shooting % is higher than KD and Harden, and well above Westbrook. As for elevating their teams, well, the Spurs have the second best record despite losing Duncan and having an aging Parker and Ginobli, and an injured Gasol. I don't think its possible to 'elevate' the Warriors, but agree that KD has made them more dangerous. Harden has a much better team around him this year (Anderson, Gordon, no Dwight etc), and its arguable whether RW has improved his team or not... But totally agree that all four of Kawhi, KD, Harden and Russ are in the conversation...just think Kawhi gets the least attention of the four.

Swampy et al, my initial post wasn't meant to harp on Nash, just comparing him to a previous 2x MVP PG winner, and how a 'good story' and media darlings often get elevated more than they should. Wall is a much better all-around player than Nash was when Nash won, and Wall has no business winning MVP this season. Justin is right, Wall deserves to be talked about, but there's at least 5-6 guys clearly ahead of him. Nash was without Amare in 2006, but I'd still much rather have his cast than Wall's current cast. PHO won 54 games that year. WAS is on pace to win 51 games this year, not much of a difference. And if not for an offensive rebound that led to a Tim Thomas 3 to send game 6 to OT, PHO would've been first-round fodder to a team starting Smush, Kwame, and Luke Walton.

Kawhi is there, but is he playing better than RW, Harden, KD, or even James? Is he elevating this team more than any of those 4? I'd say over James for sure. He's maybe the best two-way player of these 5, though KD has really elevated his defense this year. You have a 7-footer very active and guarding almost every position in KD. SA is still very deep and Pop's still the coach. LA is still an AS-caliber player. I still think RW, Harden, and KD have played better and elevated their teams better than Kawhi has, but all 4 are very close.

I think you guys need to take a look at Nash's seasons and Wall's. I'd take Wall offensively barely, but close, but Wall is a great defender unlike Nash, who was absolutely awful. Nash was fun to watch and D'antoni had a fun system, they were great stories. Nash's stats only improved slightly when he went to PHO and that's with in inflated offensive system. He was maybe only the 3rd best player on 2004 DAL, which lost 4-1 in 1st round to SAC. And DAL became better after Nash by essentially just replacing him with Jason Terry. I think he deserved to be in the conversation, but as far as the history of the MVP goes, he was an awful pick, 2 awful picks really. He shoots better than Wall, but that's about it. Wall gets about same # of assists with worse teammates and a much less offensive-happy system. Marion was great before Nash, check his career. Davis is better than Wall, but his team is doing not good enough to warrant more MVP consideration than Wall.

Astro take him over any player in the League if I was starting a new team. All these other guys talk about how they are best in the league etc but he just goes about doing his job on both ends of the floor. Always been an elite defender but he is now one of the top players on the offence side of the ball

I think Thomas gets some little guy love and taps into our connection with David v Goliath

Could not agree more! He is carrying the spurs (only a couple games back from GSW) But like has been mentioned, it is insane that so many great players are putting up great seasons. It's great to be able to watch a regular season game and see great things happen almost every night.

For me, the guy being criminally 'under-discussed' in the MVP race is Kawhi. He's been a complete beast for SA, who are 43-13 by the way. His scoring is up, and his shooting numbers are right on the edge of 50% from field, 40% from 3 and 90% from FT. Add to that, he's a top 3 defender in the entire league...a HUGE advantage over Harden and RW. He needs to start being in every MVP conversation...

I can't agree with you at all on that Nash argument. He was the reason I started watching basketball. Top 10 point guard of all time in my eyes.