Is this the NBA's best MVP race of all time?

You might want to re-watch James' 2010 2nd round series vs BOS and the 2011 Finals vs DAL, particularly the final 3 games of each. James was actually quitting on his teams. He was often motionless, just standing helplessly in the corner doing nothing. The fight went out of him. What's so peculiar was that his teams were up 2-1 each time.

It was even worse in 1988 when Jordan virtually quit. They went down to Detroit 4-1. Dumars even outscored Jordan on a few occasions. 3 years in a row Jordan got outplayed. Name another all time great who you can say that about.

Really? Dumars was the 4th-leading scorer on DET in that 1989 series, scoring 13ppg on .370 shooting. Jordan averaged 30/6/7 on .460 shooting. Both players were 1st team all-defense in 1989. So, unless you think Dumars was so much better defensively than another 1st team all-defensive selection, Jordan, I'm not exactly sure how you're coming up with this notion. Please explain. Dumars didn't make the 1989 AS game, but he was an AS-caliber player at the time, and is a HOFer, too. Iggy dominated defensively. James did put up good raw stats, but he shot very poorly. In addition to what I already said about Iggy, he took James out of his game and frustrated him a lot. James meant more to his team than Iggy did, but I thought Iggy was overall the best player in the series. He was more clutch than James, and crunch time is usually how most games are decided.

Michael Jordan in 1989 got outplayed by Joe Dumas. Humiliated him. Iguadala did not outplay Lebron in 2015. He got MVP because he did just enough to reduce Lebron's complete dominance for long enough for GS to sneak away with the series against a one man team.

I didn't realize I talked about Harden's defense any. I don't see any mention of it. Sorry McNaulty, I don't kneel before the 'king' like you and most other nba fans seem to. James is certainly one of the all-time greats. But, can you find me one supposed all-time great who's been outplayed not once, but 4x in the playoffs,, by much inferior players: Terry, Leonard, Iggy, and Rondo? Rondo was the only one who was actually an AS in particular year, too. Even now in his later stages of his career, James coasts through regular season games and even playoff games sometimes, which he's admitted to. He doesn't consistently play hard. Mentally, I still can't always trust him. Very bizarre player, especially given his natural attributes. He has redeemed himself from his first 2 Finals appearances, which were probably the worst Finals performances relative to a particular players' regular season results in NBA history. He was the 3rd best player in the 2007 Finals with Bowen dominating him. Then, probably only 4th best player in 2011 Finals with Wade continually prodding him to play hard while a sick Dirk punks them both.

Haha, I'd love to hear where you rank LBJ all time. Lucky to be in your top 20 right? I mean, I love the bit where you concede Lebron is a better defender than Harden. So generous.

KD won MVP in 2014. He was hurt in 2015. There were pretty comparable in 2016, slight edge to James probably. KD was better this year until he got hurt. OKC was 3-1 vs GS, while CLE was down 1-3 to OKC. Such small differences changed the playoff race last year. I disagree James is distancing himself that much from the other top players. GS played better vs OKC, and Green was suspended a game vs CLE, which should've been the case at the very least(probably 2-3 games) vs OKC. The NBA was very inconsistent in their suspension or lack thereof involving Green, which in the end hurt OKC while helping CLE> Curry's been solid, but he's only really had one amazing season(2016). He could put together a very solid 4-year stretch still though. His shooting is down a little this season compared to 2015, but he's virtually the same player, though not as good as he was in 2016, but a lot of that seems to be growing pains playing with KD.

James was at the the height of his powers and didn't melt down in the playoffs in 2012-2013, so I would take him, but his casts were the best those years, too. James had stacked casts in 2009 and 2010, and didn't make either Finals. He had the best team in 2011 and got outplayed by Jason Terry for much of the Finals. Pre-AS Leonard outplays in 2014 Finals. Post-AS Iggy outplays him in 2015 Finals. He needed Irving to play like an MVP in 2016 Finals to luckily pull out the title when down 1-3. He's a phemonenal player, but he's had many mental breakdowns and needs a ridiculous amount of help each time. Not sure how he's averaging a triple double, where's his 10rpg coming from? He's been basically the PG on his teams for most of his career with solid offensive players around usually, and still hasn't been that close to averaging 10apg. That's just a pipe dream. Until recently, RW/Harden were clearly the frontrunners for MVP with KD not far behind. KD is hurt now, so he's probably out of the MVP running, but GS has the best record in the league with the past 3 MVP winners(KD in 2014, Curry in 2015-2016). Leonard is an elite offensive and defensive player, probably best 2-way player in game, while SA is just one game behind GS for best record. With KD out, I'd put James 4th now probably, but 5th isn't a slight. Look at what Wall/Thomas are doing with their teams. Only 3-4 games behind CLE, and neither has another AS teammate. 5th might be a little generous.

If Lebron played for these Thunder or Rockets teams he would probably average a triple double. He possibly would have won titles as well. Say Durant played for Heat 2012 and Lebron played for Thunder with Westbrook and Harden, who wins?? "Rounding out the top five"??? I'll give you he isn't winning it, Westbrook clearly, but he is second (if you accept Harden is a liability in D), third at worst. Rounding out the 5 is clearly intended as a insult. You don't like the guy.

Come on, KD isn't "pretty close" over 4 years. You have to count the KD injuries against him because that is one of the freakish athletic things LBJ brings...he just stays healthy. He is like superman. Even without the injuries once you include LBJs last 2 post seasons he is just head and shoulders above over 4 years. If Curry kept the pace up this season I would have said he was the best over that 4 year stretch given how historically great he was the last couple but he has clearly lost whatever magic dust he had - still great but not what he was. While LBJ has gone up a notch from an already awesome standard the last couple of years. LBJ clearly paces himself throughout the regular season with full knowledge that the post season is what matters. Yet still he dominates everywhere except in defence where he backs off a little. When post season comes so does the imposing presence, pressure, steals, blocks big plays on the defensive side. OK, so he obviously has dropped his shoulders in the past and played finals well below his best. Point is the last 2 post seasons and several others previous he has shown that he has a next level that the others don't. All that said I think Westbrook is clearly MVP this regular season.

You might be right for the last 4-year stretch, though KD is pretty close. Leonard/Curry/RW don't quite have a great 4-year stretch yet, which they will soon likely. KD was hurt in 2015, though, but has had a great 2016-2017 since then. I thought he was doing better than James until he got hurt. It took Curry time to mesh with KD this season, but he has seemed to figure out some. I think he's basically the same player as he was, but he has to share the ball more. RW's been an all-nba performer for 7 years now. He really took it to another level when KD was hurt in 2015, and even another level this year. James might be the safe pick, but he certainly doesn't 'always' go to another level in the playoffs. He melted down vs BOS in 2010 and DAL in 2011. He often just coasts through games, which he's admitted to before. He's also stopped playing his hardest in 2014 and 2015 Finals.

Maybe no one team wins a title the way OKC needs to play with RW dominating the ball, but this is because those title games are great teams, which OKC clearly isn't. And Jordan/Kobe had high usage pct for their titles, maybe not as high as RW, but still very high, and I'm sure many other players had on title teams did as well. The way Donovan lets RW play is optimal for OKC, this should be obvious, similar to Kobe on bad LAL teams in mid-2000s. If RW had a top 6-7 cast, he'd dominate the ball and score less, but his rebounds would be the same, and his assists would actually probably be higher playing with solid offensive teammates. Adams has been a below-average offensive player for his career until his year. You can't just feed him the ball and expect him to take over. He is a very good player, but RW is making him look a lot better than he really is, and he's getting many more opportunities this year than before. Oladipo is playing the best ball of his career. He's a good player, but not really close to AS status. His efficiency this year is the best of his career, and his scoring average is above his career average. I don't think you looked into their stats much. After that, what does OKC have for offense even with their new players? Not too much. When RW, you do realize OKC is terrible, right? If James could average a triple-double, then he would. He's been the PG for his team pretty much every season of his career, and has never averaged 9apg despite playing with great teammates. His best rebounding season is also just 8.4rpg. He's averaged just 7.2rpg in 38.9mpg for his career. He's 6-8, 250, who is usually guarding PFs, meaning he's a lot closer to the basket to get rebounds than RW is, who guards PGs. This isn't very good. What RW is doing just rebounding-wise, James could only dream of. Yes, James and CLE are clearly underachieving. Only 2 games ahead of BOS and only 4th best record in NBA in weaker conference with that cast, that's not good. He should be in the MVP conversation as someone has round out the top 5, but that's about it.

Westbrook has a usage rating of 42.8. Harden 35.1, LeBron's is 30.1 and that's still pretty high. I don't agree that Westbrook is doing the best thing for his team. No team wins with one player dominating possession when he's on the court like Westbrook is. His teammates all go cold offensively. Guys like Adams and Oladipo are perfectly capable players but they're being treated like witches' hats by Westbrook. Just because it's fun to watch doesn't mean it's, you know, winning basketball. Westbrook is playing for his own stats. He still bombs away from 3 points range (now more than ever) despite being below league average for a 3 point shooter. His 2 point shooting percentage is his worst since his 2nd year in the league. This is just a guy taking lots and lots of shots. If I had to pick one of Westbrook and Harden I'd take Harden. His defence is still weak but at least his scoring is reasonably efficient. Harden and LeBron are about 7% better than Westbrook on true shooting percentage. That's a huge gap in shooting percentage. In LeBron's case his FT shooting is letting him down, he's clearly better even than Harden let alone Westbrook from both 2 and 3 point range this season but Harden ends up having the same true shooting as LBJ because of free throws. LeBron makes the right play, you know he could go out and average a triple double if he cared about that, that's not him. As for underachieving, Cleveland is doing what it needs to do to get to the playoffs with home court for the Eastern Conference Finals. That's what regular season success means for the Cavs. What underachieving? Pfft. LeBron Kawhi (offence and rebounding lower than the other candidates but obviously defence is the point to make up for it) Harden ... ok, Westbrook 4th, although I'd kinda like to say Durant or Davis or Giannis or something before Westbrook. I could probably justify Durant except screw that guy for going to Golden State.

While Lebron has not won the award in 4 years (if you count this year seemingly going to Westbrook) he has been the most consistent over that 4 year stretch. So the MVP of the past 4 years. Durant stuck his head up for a year and then clearly regressed back below the King and Curry put his head up for 2 seasons but this season and all previous show that he is inferior to the King. I don't see Westbrook keeping this even up for a prolonged period. Plus Lebron always go to another level during the play offs. He is a better defender than Leonard during the play offs.

It's not voter fatigue when you aren't playing like the best player in the league. What RW is doing is very special, same with Harden. RW has some decent(clearly not great) players around him, but without him, OKC would be a bottom 2-3 team in the league. He's doing exactly what his team needs him to do, which is dominate the ball as much as possible. I don't understand why some think this is a bad thing. Look who he's playing with. James' team is underachieving in the regular season, again, which seems like a trend with him. CLE can go 11-12 deep with 2 other AS and several quality role players, while only having the 4th best record in the league, that's just not going to get it done when several other great choices for MVP exist. Getting outplayed by Harden on Sunday isn't going to help him either.

Westbrook and Harden are racking up counting stats based on obscene and almost unprecedent usage rates (actually unprecedented, in Westbrook's case). Westbrook's season is fun and all but he's even less efficient now than he was with Durant. His numbers are just what happens when you let oneplayer handle the ball on nearly every possession for 39 minutes. Harden is similar, a little more efficient. I think Kawhi should be up in the top 2, but LeBron is LeBron. There shouldn't be MVP voter fatigue since he didn't win it the last two seasons. He's the best player in the league, he's playing a ridiculous number of minutes even now, he carries his team at both ends (and he carries them to serious contendership, not an 8-seed). He should be MVP again.