Let’s cut the Aussies some slack, and give the Kiwis some credit

Substitute NZ for Australia, and Australia for England in this story and re-read... sound somewhat familiar Republican?

..........disagree again BBA. The obsession of NZers to be better than Australia at all and sundry does certainly bring out the worst in their sporting public & media, while my experience is that the expectations Nzers place on their own sports men and women is as unrealistic if not moreso than ours. NZ is no exception when it comes to placings their interests before anyone else, which is all Australian Rugby enthusiasts are trying to accomplish here.. If Kiwis are advocating a higher calibre of Union for this country then they need to accept that this may also involve a severing from Super Rugby. This should be a cause for celebration by Kiwis, since most are of the opinion that they would much prefer to compete v Saffa than v us, which is entirely understandable. While Nzers offer much rhetoric and pathos that infers their support of the code here, they also covet their status in the game so obsessively that this exposes a breathtaking contradiction on their part. In regards to Australians calling it a stupid game that no one watches, this is entirely accurate in the context of the game here. I believe Nzers take exception to this because the code is akin to a religion for many Kiwis, so it is of personal affront to suggest that anyone and especially Australia would not affirm it with the same reverence and hold the very same affinity for the game; fact is we don't so this is less a case of skulking and more a practical approach to saving a code that has always struggled for profile here and quite frankly, there must be something better to aspire to than being belted by NZ year in year out. Because Nzers exclusively bask in their dominance over Australia in Union they naturally prefer that this would continue - indefinitely, so the thought that the code is dying a death of a thousand cuts here has may rallying to the cause, appealing to our vanity and scrutinising our national character, as we have come to expect at times i.e. these. It is moot however that by continuing to be your whipping boys, in order to maintain a status quo you have become so accustomed to, will result in raising the standard of the code in this country........

.........exactly and this is why we should cease fostering their sporting potential, albeit for commercial rather than altruistic reasons. NZ should be encouraged to form their own domestic comps whileI wouldn't hold your breath in respect of them inviting us to join their NPC........

Great read Fion. You are right about the All Blacks winning manner in the last 20. It's so expected now where during the game you measure that last 20 into the context - so if the All Blacks are only four points ahead or behind it's almost like "yeah but add another 15 points for the last 20" The All Blacks really have a new wave in the last 20 and it's epic! Yes under Dean's heading to the RWC '11 the backline was striking. Dean's found the players and they were lethal. I really felt Australia were the second best team at the tournament. I think you lost your best prop before the tournament, and then Cooper took on the country; and that became Australia's biggest weakness. I think the All Blacks only scored one try in that game, and from memory the All Blacks gained a lot of easy points from their scrum. It was a fundamental there to be exploited and the All Blacks did. Similarly the RWC '15 it was the lineout this time that gave the All Blacks easy points. If you have a weakness there the All Blacks can just win off the vulnerabilities that it creates. You're right about the doom and gloom. Australia are still number three in the world. The super format is just a bit stuffed, and Australia need to remove one team. Individually that hurts even though it's better for the collective. And that becomes the divisive. That is another area of advantage for the All Blacks. There really is a lot of respect given to that team by the clubs, provinces and super teams; so they mould together well with individual and collective goals. Where as in Australia there is friction. I also wonder with the easy draw Australia has in the super - playing each other twice. guaranteed finalist - has this made them a bit softer. It looks good initially but the soft draw may have its consequences, and now we are seeing it.

Sorry it's not ok to lose. Excuses don't drive improvement.

Nice Fionn, I tend to think that NZ rugby is where it is in relation to Oz because of two things, one being that Oz rugby actually is in a worse state than it has been before. The signs were there in the 2015 year when Cheika had to squeeze everything out of his current crop, and that in the two years since the quality of player coming through just isn't as high as it normally is, no new player is setting the world on fire, and all the reasons have been laid out many times on the ROAR. The other reason is NZ grassroots rugby remains as strong as ever, and many quality players are coming through regularly. The Henry/ Hansen eras have built up a finely tuned system to take full advantage of this and it's showing through all levels of the game here. Simply put, NZ rugby is healthy, thriving where Oz rugby is struggling in those same areas and both are contributing to this gap. Prior to 1978 this was also the norm for over seventy years so it's not a new thing. Back then it required a 'shift' in Oz sport to take on Rugby Union as a major focus and I think that's needed again here. All this discussion about removing teams, changing the tournament etc won't change the fundamental idea that Union is no longer the sport of choice of the numbers needed to be competitive at the top that it once was and until a major shift in that thinking occurs, I don't think it's going to change much. Moving the deck chairs isn't going to make them more competitive without the right quality of players coming through.

We were #1 for a short period of time in League. Likelihood is that we will continue to lose 80% of our games against Aus. Probably similar to the Wallabies record against the AB's. I also agree that we are obsessed with beating Aus in anything. However the difference is that when we dont win you dont get an outpouring of its too tough, lets change the rules of the games, or change the structure of the tournament so that it only suits Aus (i.e. kick out SA and only play NZ) and if all that doesnt work just call it a stupid game that no one watches or wants to play and skulk off. There is more money in Aus, more potential for growth in rugby in Aus than NZ, Aussie players get paid more than NZ players already. It is in the ARU's capability to fix the problem internally. That they appear to not be doing this is the problem, the poor performance of the superugby teams is the symptom of that not the cause.

Not sure why you're defending the Wallabies, they've been absolutely rubbish for going on 15 years now. Haven't won a thing for more than a decade! Pathetic.

Agree Swede. Living in Australia, I am constantly surprised at how well Australian rugby teams perform (both Super Rugby and Wallabies), and have performed in the past, for so little interest in the sport amongst the general population. It truly amazes me. I contrast that to how big rugby was/is in South Africa, and the UK (& Ireland, lived in London for 4 years) & France. Judging on interest and exposure amongst the general population and player depth, these other countries theoretically should be flogging Australian teams every time they take the field, yet they don't. Australian rugby players and teams perform remarkably well, and at a very high level. Well done. It actually boggles my mind, because of the background I come from where rugby was everything, talked about at every social gathering, in school, on TV, at work Etc Etc. And now live in Australia, and people don't even follow the game or their teams or know the players Etc???

I like your tip... Go Sharks!! Will be pretty tough to topple the Lions though.

I agree with the main punch point .... comparing ourselves with NZ teams is self defeating. We are at a different point in the development cycle of the game/ clubs to NZ teams and have certain handicaps particular to Oz to overcome. Given this start from a low base, Aussie teams are doing well. They are showing signs of improving in the Super Comp, while games between Aussie teams are just great to watch. Mick Byrnes (spelling?) has hit one key point, namely, the need to improve in unstructured play, together with the fitness, skills and mentality to compete well in those phases of the game. Generally hearted by what I am seeing. Appreciate the good work being done.

Fionn last time i looked a lot of these super rugby players are selected to play rugby as professional players earning a pretty good in come for it. I have been a rugby nut for a very long time as i remember being mesmerised by the welsh brigade at the time Barry Johns was playing and seeing him play v NZ at Athletic Park. Rugby has always been a pretty straight forward game. Now days they have systems and skill sets to match especially the Kiwis but i remember a time watching the Ellas and Campo etc weaving their magic and all on the back of a well organised and tenacious forward pack. Imagine 3 not 4 teams made up of the best in Australuan rugby. Coached by a very good coach or coaches come on Aussies 3 very competitive teams with around 35 players per squad 105 decent to very good rugby players

Nice one Fionn, I have tipped the sharks to take out the SA Conferences, just pipping the reigning champion lions. It makes for great rugby, I was both excited and disappointed by the Reds game. You could see seeds germinating, - hand-offs and play making, which in my opinion is a giant leap forward, but alas handling skills let them down, it is years behind the Kiwi sides and a bit behind the top SA sides who look like they are playing catch-up with the kiwi's as well. My suggestion is to send Mick Byrne on a permanent cycle of a 5 stop tour of Australia re-teaching players how to pass catch and kick. It would have the added bonus - when the players finally get together to play as Wallabies, they will be playing the same brand of rugby instead of the current system that looks more like trying to Jam Betamax tapes into a VHS Recorder. To explain the metaphor: Betamax is a superior quality product. VHS is like Tah's Rugby - Very Popular, A different shape. does a good job in some areas but just cant quite get the performance professionals need. The Kiwis are Blu-Ray on a 4k Screen

I take your last point, however, in league the Kiwis have only one 4 of the last 20 tests. They had a good run of three wins which took them to number 1, but Australia are back in that spot now after winning the past 4 since. The kiwi players are also fed largely through our clubs which is a key difference when compared to our rugby.

Sorry but this headline is a crock (not sure if you wrote it Fionn). No Aussie is expecting our sides to be more successful against the kiwis - they are bloody good we already know that. We just want our guys to be more competitive and a professional standard.

But I don't like it.If only we could play harder and smarter.

Refresh me mate what was the situation?

Very well laid out.

.........you do when it comes to Cricket. My experience of NZers is that they are collectively obsessed with beating Australia at all and sundry. No, you render the whinging Pom a nation of glass half full eternal optimists, to be sure. PS You haven't been smashed in League by us for donkeys and are the current world # one in that Rugby code as well.........

quite correct. we live next to,and get beaten by, the greatest league nation in the world, and we dont whine about it .