Horne, Gordon join Wallabies' Test squad

But can Tuttle play halfback without George Smith having to cover half of his rucks?

What about James Tuttle ??..I`d say he is in the conversation with Powell and Gordon..

Has English ever made a squad? I'd love to see how he'd go in that environment.

Dempsey has played 13 games for the Waratahs in 3 years and he is ready for a call up That will do me.....Cheika does not hide his bias anymore, hasn't for 2 years...

what I suspect you meant to ask is how many tahs in the Wallabies should have been dropped to super rugby due to poor form. Robertson, Mumm, Skelton, Phipps, Foley (to bench, only have 2 flyhalves to use), Horne.

waratahs dropped to nrc for poor super rugby form.? A lot. But that is harder to work out since it requires a better replacement available from somewhere AND the player to be out of contract with the tahs. I wish M Alaatoa, Nadalo, L Timani, Coleman etc had been kept and valued.

So true DOUBLES.. It's almost guaranteed that you need to play twice as hard if you're from the Rebels, Force, Brumbies and Reds if you wanna play for the Wallabies.

^^ 7 too many

How many Waratahs have been poor in the last 2 years PeterK in your opinion?? Blokes who should have been dropped to the NRC or out of the 23 ? How many?? Name them .. Go on ...hahaha.. I`d say it will impossible for you to name them with the Blue Tinted Monicle you are sporting..

Hornes strength in the past was his defence although he really hasn't been strong there for a couple of seasons. His tackling success is 68%, simply not good enough for a center. Meakes would be a better choice however I think Duncan Paia'aua offers more, leading the defensive stats for the Aussie inside backs 80% and second to Kerevi in attacking stats. Any Force folk know how Louwrens rehab is progressing? There's a lot of Joost van der Westhuizen in that lad.

Yes, and has only been finding form recently. He is only 2-3 years older than Koroibete, and has had more good games this year. It's never about just rebuilding, and Alexander has been one of the most in-form loosehead props this season. Actually, he has probably been the single most in-form loosehead this season. I think Verity-Amm, Rona and Banks are better outside backs on form. At the end of the day I think we fundamentally disagree on two thins (1) I haven't seen enough in Koroibete to make me think he belongs in the squad even as a project player, I think he has just been picked as a result of the carry on from last year and (2) I don't like the idea of project players unless the player has demonstrated form. I also think that Ross Haylett-Petty, Matt Phillip, Meakes and Paia'aua are better use of "project picks" than Koroibete and Nabuli, given we are shorter on forwards and centres than outside backs. Regardless, it isn't the end of the world, Cheika's squad a much better squadthan I was expecting and ticked most of the boxes that I had hoped for.

Fionn - I was having fun with the tackle count. In 3 years the tackle success has been significantly different between Folau and Smith. 2013 and 2017 Folau a lot better 2015 Smith a lot better 2014 , 2016 Smith a small percent better DHP always poor

FIONN - A Toua is not a player to be chosen for development, he has played in super rugby since 2011. Same with Alexander, not worth going backwards unless he starts which he won't. Rona should be picked ahead of Horne. Now it is a different question that he has chosen too many wingers. I am saying given that he wants that many then I have no issue using 1 spot to develop MK. Which wingers were left out that are green and have a lot of potential?

'Picking players of great potential for development purposes, to fast track them , to learn the systems is fine IMO. They get better development with Bryne, Ledesma etc than with super rugby coaches.' Sure, but then you pick the young guys in good SR form rather than the new guys with no SR form but a lot of hype and a few highlight reels: Rona and Toua both better than Koroibete, and we already have a bunch of wingers. RHP and Phillip much better than Dempsey and, I would argue, Hanigan also. It's a combination of his defensive stats AND how often I see Koroibete out of position and leaking points. "Speight, Naivalu, don’t kick well either. Folau is a better kicker than all 3." I think Folau is a much better player than either Speight, Koroibete or Naivalu, I would play Folau over them. I just checked, Ben Smith has been superior to Folau in defence every year since 2014 until this year, and he has been injured a lot of the year so I don't think it is enough to be statistically significant. I'm not saying play Hunt on the wing, he's a better fullback. DHP, Speight, Folau, Naivalu (you always say international form counts more), Nabuli and even Hodge or Toua would be better wing choices imo. I don't see how my squad is any more short-term than Cheika's. I would drop Horne, Dempsey, Koroibete, Nabuli, Robertson and Tui for Rona, RHP, Paia'aua and/or Meakes, Phillip and Ben Alexander.

Test rugby form does mean more than super rugby form. If you are the incumbent and playing well in tests you should not be dropped regardless of super rugby form. My major issue is when players are out of test form, AND someone is in better form at super rugby they are still retained. This happened with Kerevi when TK was poor at test and super rugby. Speight with Naivalu. Coleman and Arnold with every incumbent lock.

Hunt is not a better wing choice though for the same reasons Horne isn't. Your choices for squad are short term , super rugby form based. There should be room to develop green players, just like some are taken on spring tour for that purpose.

Fionn - I disagree re the squad. Picking players of great potential for development purposes, to fast track them , to learn the systems is fine IMO. They get better development with Bryne, Ledesma etc than with super rugby coaches. You don't a Wallaby jersey unless you earn it, no issue into squad. This is a good way to get green players to pick up skills, find out what they have to work on, to be ready for the next rwc. I find it funny you are happy to say his defence is poor based on stats however when it is about players you do want you are happy to ignore stats. Did you know B Smith makes less tackles per game than Folau, and has a poorer tackle success. Did you notice DHP missing yet another corner tackle. He misses most ones like that. Anyway I agree his defence needs a lot of work, and his positional play. Speight, Naivalu, don't kick well either. Folau is a better kicker than all 3.

I can't believe we're talking about picking a player who, according to this thread, can't pass or is bad at it. Seriously!

He concedes far more points and territory than Naivalu, however, in my opinion due to being out of position and his horrible kicking. I'm pretty sure Naivalu is carrying an injury (getting to be a worry), because he has looked very out of form. We didn't need so many outside backs imo, and I would have thought Rona as a 13/winger hybrid would be preferred, as would another loose forward-lock hybrid of 12. I'd go so far as to say that I think Toua or Banks are more deserving than Koroibete, but at the end of the day, they shouldn't be taking the field anyway: Speight, DHP, Folau, Hunt and Hodge are all much better outside back choices.

I don't have an issue with Naivalu being there. Don't agree TWAS on your assessment of MK. Against Brumbies MK went searching for a lot more ball than Naivalu. His defence has been pretty ordinary but so has Naivalu. 63% v 66%. Attack stats in MK's favour. 4 tries to 1. 89 carries to 58. per game , 8.1 carries v 6.4 7.6 m v 7.0 m per carry 0.24 v 0.29 defenders beaten per carry 0.18 v 0.16 clean breaks per carry 33 passes v 10 passes