Women are undoubtedly the future of football

Mike is pushing for a job at the PC twins ABC/SBS.

@Nemesis:yet another straw man attack. You're really good on the logical fallacies, I must say. Not very good on the logic, though, or the fact. Did I suggest borrowing money to pay women more? Or did I suggest that, given the the successes of the women in football, they might be worth a bigger share of the existing pie? I rather think the latter. You're very fixated on the importance of balancing the budget. The FFA, and I'm sure every A League owner, is fixated on doing whatever it takes, including borrowing money, to finance growth. It's the difference between bean-counters and entrepreneurs.

Some clown suggested the FFA should be able to borrow money to invest in the WLeague to pay players full-time wages. No doubt that person has never approached a bank for a loan because a bank will laugh in your face if you asked for a loan (around $15m would be needed per year) with little hope of repayment. Today, we're hearing the NRL - a sporting body that has a TV deal that would be around 8x that of the FFA - is seeking a $30m loan. A major bank has said: NO. So, if anyone thinks the FFA can borrow money to invest in the Women's Game, they're living in fantasy land.

@Grobbelaar, I am not an expert in Russian football, but a little research has revealed that Russia's land mass is a little over twice that of Australia, whilst the Russian second division football league you refer to has been divided into 5 conferences for the past 14 seasons or so. At the end of the day, it appears that Australia still has enormous logistical challenges that are rarely encountered elsewhere. As for Brazil and Argentina, these countries have vast pyramid systems (read conferences) in place which minimize logistical challenges. Unfortunately, we in Australia lack the number of quality teams to emulate the bigger football countries. We also lack the supporter base. Holland? Yes, I have visited and toured Holland. A vast and fascinating country, and I can well imagine the frequent 500km road trips encountered by Dutch football clubs! LOL!! How many times does Holland fit into Victoria?

"If you are ignorant about the football landscape in Australia and you’re ignorant about what programs & investment the FFA & State Feds make at grassroots level you are ill-equipped to offer insights." This coming from someone who thinks the FFA doesn't employ people with marketing and PR skills, and that it rejects sponsorship from liquor companies. Your own lack of knowledge about the FFA programs and investment certainly hasn't stopped you from offering your insights into the game. But in any case, you and your tag team buddy continue to miss the point: an argument stands or falls on its own merits and not on your assumption, based on nothing more than a dislike of "casual fans," about the knowledge level of the person making the argument. And frankly, anyone who gives particular credence to an internet comment purely on the basis that the person is "one of us" or has "expertise" or "inside knowledge" is exercising zero common sense: people lie about their backgrounds on the internet all the time. You of all people should know that. You can only judge people on their arguments, and not on who or what they claim to be.That truly is common sense.

#Waz The irony is - nothing in either response from Nemesis or "The Auteur" disagreed with my suggestion that a womens FIFA WC in Australia is a more realistic hope than a mens one. "The Auteur" has no rebuttal at all so is no consequence. As far as Nemesis goes - well - I would agree that a Mens FIFA WC would likely have greater benefit to the domestic game. However - that's in the hypothetical scenario of winning the right to host one this side of a successful Mars Colonisation. (which would be better than a Uranus Colon...isation) Anyhoo - he got to his real sticking point - - after having an ex ARU guy, then an ex AFL guy, and now an ex NRL guy - - poor Nemesis has a really good basis to assert that soccer in this country doesn't care about the opinions of outsiders......really good basis.....if you ask me (but he wouldn't)!!

In any discussion, the credibility of the person making the comment/opinion is at the very core of whether we should accept, or reject, that person's commentary. If you watch a football match & comment on the quality of the game - that's a valid opinion, even if we disagree. But, if you don't watch a football match & comment on the quality of the game - that's an ignorant opinion. This is basic common sense. So, in relation to this discussion, if you are ignorant about the football landscape in Australia and you're ignorant about what programs & investment the FFA & State Feds make at grassroots level, you are ill-equipped to offer insights.

Chris - of course it's about attacking the man. You've just done it again. Whether I've ever been to a game or ever watched one on TV has nothing to do with whether the argument I'm making is valid or not.

Speaking of Russia, they have 2nd division teams travelling the full breadth of what is close to the whole of the Eurasian continent. Former Georgian Football Federation president Nodar Akhalkatsi jnr would also argue that in his region, clubs are travelling through war zones to get to the next game. His reaction to whinging about how big Queensland is would be something like: god you aussies are a pack of whingers. In the Dutch example, we are still talking about small 2nd division clubs doing round trips of 500km by road, and in the Italian example, the round road trip would be 2,000+km. There would be even bigger road trips in places like Brazil and Argentina, Australia is not alone.

Nope. It's one of the reasons I worry about models based on how football works in Belgium (pop 11,350,000, area 30,500 sq km) or the Netherlands (pop 17 million, area, 41,500 km) applying to a country in which one state alone (NSW) has a population of 7.5 million and an area of 810,000 sq km. The logistical challenges are just so different. I remember, years ago, chatting to an Italian colleague in Italy who just couldn't fathom the concept that you could take a five hour flight in Canada and still be in Canada.. A five hour flight from Rome, and you would be somewhere in Russia.

Or 1850 km EACH WAY for FNQ to and from SWQ Thunder and vice versa! That includes a 150km road trip each way at the SWQ sector after the flight component. No easy answers, are there?

The Netherlands isn't much more than 300 km end to end. Bari to Venezia is around 800 km. Quite a big difference between either of those and travelling 1600 or 1700 km from Cairns or Townsville to Brisbane or Gold Coast on a regular basis.

Actually, on social media, I have found more quotes from Joe Gorman's book, none of which paints him as someone fully supportive of P&R: "Melbourne Victory, for example, would have to confront the prospect of being relegated to a second division, replaced by a real club like Adelaide City, or Bonnyrigg White Eagles, or Floreat Athena, or South Melbourne." "...promotion and relegation would break the protective membrane and reintroduce structural diversity to a community that loathes it." "There is a huge difference between getting the uninvolved Australians to eat souvlaki once a year at an FFA Cup game and getting them to accept an ethnic-backed club as a legitimate partner in soccer’s future."

It might be an attack on Australian culture, let's accept that is the case, but he is still painting a bleak picture of how P&R operated in the NSL, and he clearly says: "When that advice was ignored, the 1980s proceeded as the most democratic and open decade in national league history. It was also the decade when attendances dipped as low as the hundreds and soccer all but died as a commercial product. ” But if he is also saying that's all in the past and we should not see that as relevant to what would happen today, then I agree with him.

It's never ending. Two days ago Fuss claimed the FFA and all clubs "take a moral stance against alcohol advertising", thus forfeiting millions in sponsorship...unlike those awful other codes. In truth however; - the FFA *do* accept alcohol sponship, but haven't managed to sign a sponsor yet. - the FFA backflipped on a previous non-alcohol sponsorship when the government pulled the program (yep, it was effectively a govt-funded "moral stance"...a kind of sponsorship, I guess) - he had no idea that Hahn Superdry (for eg) was the Brian Roar's No.1 commercial partner. - ...but everyone else was clueless on the topic, lacked experience, and didn't understand real football issues. Priceless.

Northerner its not about attacking the man. But it comes back to credibility. The substance of what you write does not come from the heart. Its just a bunch of cobbled together pieces from others that you have found along your way on the internet and media etc. You have never been to a game, never will attend a game I daresay, and have never played the game.

On Social Media, Gorman has said that passage in the book has nothing to do with whether he thinks Pro/Rel will work. Someone said: I read the section in Joe Gorman's book about Pro/Rel and took it as an attack on Australian culture, rather than an anti-pro/rel piece. Gorman replied: you are correct in how you read the extract.

Nodar Akhalkatsi jnr and Ravi Kumar have been in talks with the FFA this morning.

jb Football journalist, Joe Gorman, has just released a book called The Death and Life of Australian Soccer. He talks extensively of the early NSL period, a time in our footballing history you often refer to on this board. He too refers to history being a great teacher, but, is the NSL experience a true teacher? Just because something didn't work in the NSL, does it mean it can't work today? Aren't we now well advanced from that amateurish period? Joe Gorman says: "....what is rarely mentioned is that the history of promotion and relegation in Australia is not good. In the NSL it was mostly a managed process, with clubs such as Canberra, Newcastle, Wollongong and South Melbourne all deemed too important to be relegated, at least at one point in time. When it did exist in its traditional form, promotion and relegation brought absolute chaos and instability to the league. Many reviews and reports recommended its abolition, such as in 1981, when the ASF Marketing Report noted that it “is simply not a practical system in the 1980s for a sport that wishes to develop nationally”. When that advice was ignored, the 1980s proceeded as the most democratic and open decade in national league history. It was also the decade when attendances dipped as low as the hundreds and soccer all but died as a commercial product. " While I accept Gorman's take on NSL history, I'm not convinced that this means that P&R cannot work in the modern age. This is what we must strive for now, and if it means a mini-revolution and turning the whole thing upside down, then that's what must happen.

For heavens' sakes indeed. Yesterday you were insisting FFA had no marketing or publicity staff, which was manifestly wrong, yet today you're claiming inside knowledge of its operations. Back in the day, we used to call that a "credibility gap." Perhaps, before lecturing me, you should consider your own advice and start learning from those who really are part of the football community.