He has played 32 Test matches, taken 155 wickets giving away an average of 23 runs per hapless victim. He is ranked the No.1 Test bowler in the world right now. And just to stamp his importance to Virat Kohli’s all conquering Test team, he also boasts a batting average of 30 coming in regularly at No.8.
He is Ravindersinh Anuradhsinh Jadeja, descendant of a family boasting generations of warriors. A fact that has not been lost on every team that has had the misfortune of coming up against him over the past year or so.
From nowhere, Jadeja has magically produced unplayable deliveries that have brought breakthroughs when nothing seemed to be going India’s way. And once he strikes, he quickly becomes dangerously penetrative. One wicket often becomes five. Nine five-wicket hauls in 32 Tests is testimony to his abilities.
In March 2017, Jadeja joined Ravichandran Ashwin at No.1 in the ICC rankings for Test bowlers in what is the first instance of two spinners jointly claiming the top spot. He then bumped Ashwin off the pedestal and claimed sole right to keep that position, where he still remains.
Not bad for a man who even a year or so ago was labelled a specialist of the shorter formats of the game and struggled to make the Test team.
So exactly how good has his career been thus far?
Only five spinners in the history of Test cricket have made their way to a 150-wicket haul faster than Jadeja – Sidney Barnes, Clarrie Grimmett, Saeed Ajmal, Shane Warne and Ravi Ashwin. That is not a list to be scoffed at.
However, no left arm bowler has got there faster. Jadeja sits on top of an illustrious list that shows Mitchell Johnson languishing just below him, having achieved the feat in 34 Tests.
The next target is clearly the 200-wicket mark. Sitting atop the record books here as the fastest to reach the mark are Clarrie Grimmett and Ravi Ashwin in 36 and 37 Tests respectively.
While it is inconceivable that Jadeja will make it to this mark in the next five or six Tests, given the rich vein of form he is displaying, he can certainly dream of getting to 200 faster than the next two spinners on that list, Stuart McGill and Shane Warne, who took 41 and 42 Tests to reach the mark respectively.
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It’s worth looking at what has changed in the last year or so when his Test career, languishing after a promising start in 2012, has changed trajectory.
Karthik Krishnaswamy, writing in ESPNCricinfo earlier this year, brought out some interesting thoughts.
“Jadeja now looks more threatening on flat pitches than he used to, his changes of pace and trajectory keeping batsmen vigilant at all times where his earlier, metronomic style could occasionally bowl them into a rhythm.
Now, if he sees a batsman negotiating him largely off the back foot, he’ll aim a round-arm dart at his pads. Or if a batsman is defending him off the front foot with his pad next to the line of the ball, wary of the threat of lbw, he’ll toss one up slower and wider. Sometimes, this may bring immediate results – think Jonny Bairstow scooping a catch to short cover in the first innings in Chennai. At other times, a batsman may simply slice the ball to backward point, off the outside half of his bat, then start bringing his front leg further across in defence, leading to an lbw further down the line.”
Krishnaswamy goes on to draw an interesting conclusion:
“What changed between his 16th Test against South Africa in Delhi and his 17th in St Lucia eight months later? One thing did change: India hired a new coach, and that man, Anil Kumble, had a career of two distinct halves. In the first half, he was a fast, non-turning legspinner who speared the ball into the stumps and let the pitch do the rest. In the second, he began flighting the ball more, varied his pace more frequently, and tasted far more success overseas. Jadeja could well be taking the first few steps of a similar journey.”
That is a very interesting point indeed. While Kumble is not at the helm of affairs anymore following a bitter public fallout with Kohli, the man who has replaced him is not only an astute strategist, but in his playing days, Ravi Shastri was also a similar left-arm spinner to Jadeja.
In an interesting parallel, Jadeja’s recent success as a batsman in addition to his penetrative bowling is actually a virtual replay of how Shastri’s own career evolved.
So what will be the next target? Jadeja’s partner in crime, Ashwin, just became the fastest to reach the double of 2000 Test runs and 250 wickets in his 51st match. With 19 Tests to go and Jadeja looking to up the ante in both his bowling and batting, Ashwin’s reign at the top could conceivably be short lived.
By suspending him for the next Test match for throwing a ball needlessly and dangerously while fielding, Richie Richardson may only have temporarily delayed Ravi Jadeja’s relentless march to the top of Test cricket’s most coveted bowler and all-rounder rankings.
Savage
Roar Rookie
I think WI abandoned test series of 2014 has also something to do with this Situation(3 back to back Test series with SL).I can understand 7 match odi Series vs AUS but why LOI series vs NZ(just a year ago we already played 5 odi vs nz) and tests vs SL(could've been scheduled later and replaced by more exciting series).As an Indian fan,This schedule does'nt excite me.
Savage
Roar Rookie
Savage
Roar Rookie
You're Right Anindya,I'm clearly Bias for selection of Raina as I'm huge fan for him.There are many more deserving players in Odi team.In my defence, 1.I still consider him as better option than Rahane keeping 2019 wc in mind. 2.Although i'm not following Domestic cricket ATM but still i have'nt heard of any more batsmen who really excites me(in terms of ODI's and T20's) like Chris Lynn is exciting prospect for Australia.SO,i'm clearly hoping Raina would be as good as he was 3 years Ago.He was not only power hitter but also smart cricketer.His innings in QF,SF of 2011 WC just proves that. "I think Raina is not even making an effort to stay fit. Have you seen him recently? He has bloated and is struggling with his batting." this makes me dissapointed!!.
Anindya Dutta
Roar Guru
@savage This may explain the schedule better http://www.cricketcountry.com/news/india-tour-of-south-africa-confirmed-for-early-next-year-says-rahul-johri-633295
Anindya Dutta
Roar Guru
The reason why India is playing SL a second time this year is that the slot was long ago kept for an Indo-Pak series which India has been very clear for a long time is not going to happen unless the terror sponsorship stops. Hence the Govt forced BCCI to cancel it. Sri Lanka's calendar allowed them to fill the slot and of course no team would give up the money if they can get a series against India in their slack period. The series just concluded was fixed 3 years ago in the calendar. I cant speak for the ODI series and why they are happening as I haven't paid much attention tot hem. I think Raina is not even making an effort to stay fit. Have you seen him recently? He has bloated and is struggling with his batting. So I honestly dont understand the hue and cry about dropping him. For me at best he should be in the T20 team. There are far more deserving players in the ODI team. My personal view is that Rishabh Pant is being held back and Dhoni is being given a long rope to see how he does over the coming months. I dont see Dhoni surviving until WC 2019.
Savage
Roar Rookie
Thanks Giri,you're last post certainly left me with no doubt that you don't consider Ashwin as an ATG.Again sorry for my misunderstanding,i said that you sounded(give impression) like R Ashwin is ATG just like you sounded ashwin better than jadeja or kuldeep will easily be better than R ashwin overseas .Comments like "Everyone considers him as a world class bowler" led me to my sounded ATG comment.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
@Savage sorry bro, never in any of my posts I spoke anything wrong about Jadeja. I just pointed out that he averages 86 in NZ and 47 in England. Jadeja is a very good bowler and his average proves that he is a world class performer. It does not matter to me if he did not perform in 2 countries on his first tour. Coming back to Kumble, I watched Kumble from 1993 England tour to India. Kumble was indeed considered world class spinner in the 90's and it is a fact. He did struggle in those countries you mentioned. Kumble also struggled in Sri Lanka throughout his career. His career turned around in 2001/02 tour to England where India beat England and tied the test series. No one is debating the fact that Swann is a better spinner than anyone playing currently in tests. Probably Maharaj is getting closer. Ashwin needs time to perform overseas, he hasn't even played a single full series in any of those countries except for Australia. He needs to get full tours and not get dropped after one game. Overseas tests works this way, there are certain pitches where the spinners are just support acts to pacers and then they get that one pitch where they get help which they need to cash in. Like Sydney in Australia traditionally helps spinners, Adelaide has some help after 3rd or 4th day. In England Oval traditionally helps spinners in the second innings. Thats the reason a spinner should play all the tests to take advantage of that one wicket where he can pick wickets. For Lyon it was Adelaide test where Ash was dropped. I wouldn't call Jadeja as better spinner than Ashwin based on one 5 wicket haul in SA. Both of them need another round of tours to decide if they are good enough overseas. I wouldn't bring Ashwin's ODI record here as he has declined as a ODI bowler when he started performing well in tests, he has been poor over the last few years and I have been one of the fans who has been calling for his axe from the squad. "@Giri,i can understand if you still consider Ashwin as world class Spinner but surely you cannot blame anyone who doesn’t consider him as world class spinner.you sounded like Ashwin is already certified ATG who is in same class as Warne,murali etc and does’nt need to perform overseas to be considered world class." Again lots of assumptions, I never said he is a ATG, I said he is world class. There is lots of difference. I never compared Warne, Murali to Ashwin. I respect your opinion that you don't rate him but you need to understand all my arguments were towards Ashwin and I had given examples but never compared him to anyone and did not say he is better than anyone or equal to anyone either. I don't understand why you are bringing up Lyon, Jadeja and others into the mix. Is it a rule that there needs to be just one world class bowler playing at a time. Me calling Ashwin world class does not mean that there aren't other bowlers who are world class as well. Never did I mention in any of my posts about my likes or dislikes about on other bowler. I never said Ashwin is ATG and I never said Jadeja was not World class. These were your assumptions and not my words, please read through my posts again.
Savage
Roar Rookie
i know slightly off-topic here,but can somebody explain me latest fixtures of indian team.India is going to play 23 matches from september to december with very few matches to be excited about.when was the last time two teams played 3 test series(each of 3 matches) in space of 25-26 months.Also one team is ranked 1 and other 7. yuvraj is dropped from odi team (which i won't complain) but what has Rahane deserved to be in the team.Great to see yadav,shami given rest(even though shami has'nt played a lot).I would've picked Raina(selfless x factor player which team lacks even though he didn't help his cause by not doing great in ipl) instead of Rahane(despite being good in WI). why Rishabh pant was selected in WI odi's when he was going to be dropped vs SL without playing any odi's on WI. THERE IS SOMETHING SERIOUSLY WRONG WITH OUR SELECTION COMMITTEE.I seriously fear for our 2019 WC campaign.
Savage
Roar Rookie
@Giri, My favourite indian player is C pujara(along with kohli).I believe C pujara(just edges out ashwin,jadeja) has been best player for india in SC due to his great performance on difficult SC pitches.for EX-:82* vs aus of 4th test in 2013,130 odd against england in mumbai,92 vs Aus in banglarore,149* in sri lanka(on slightly green wicket),202 in ranchi(Very important innings underpressure) etc.i can't recall even one series(in SC) where pujara has failed.Even though i have my bias while defending his overseas performance,i still cannot consider him as world class player ATM(I firmly believe he will be in future).setting Dravid as benchmark,you cannot say he will definitely score all those double centuries,centuries that dravid scored on green tops against ENG,NZ or match winning double in AUS(2003).you surely cannot say pujara will definitely be great as Dravid was. i don't consider pujara(my fav player) as world class batsmen(just as yet),so tell me,How can i consider R ashwin as world class bowler? I may sound like Ashwin hater,but trust me i am not his hater nor his fan.I still consider him world class spinner in sub continent and arguably best spinner in the world.Although i still believe he is not as great in SC as you make him out to be.i've seen quality players of spin like Clarke,KP,Steve smith,A cook etc actually struggle against jadeja more than they struggle against R ASHWIN in SUBCONTINENT. my current rankings of spinner: jadeja= >Ashwin = >herath = >lyon = >yasir shah.(= > means slightly better than).Although ashwin has more potential but i am considering jadeja as best due to his great recent form and rankings(he is no 1 bowler atm). if i include swann who was world class bowler then my ranking: SWANN> jadeja= >Ashwin = >herath = >lyon = >yasir shah @Giri,i can understand if you still consider Ashwin as world class Spinner but surely you cannot blame anyone who doesn't consider him as world class spinner.you sounded like Ashwin is already certified ATG who is in same class as Warne,murali etc and does'nt need to perform overseas to be considered world class.
Savage
Roar Rookie
Giri,i know i said lets agree to disagree but i think there are way too many points you said which are absolutely wrong. "I respect you but you need to brush up your history a little bit"you're Right as i only followed cricket since 2003 World cup i don't exactly know whether kumble was world class in 90s(so i trust your words).But,he still manages to average 42.43 in 90s which is certainly better than 56.58. since 2000s i only consider warne,murali,kumble and swann as world class spinners.out of them only warne and murali are certified ATGs.you also said i only judge players on stat which is absolutely not true.i have already seen enough of ashwin to say that he is not in same leagues of those 4 bowlers.In 2005 Ashes,shane warne took 3 wickets in first session of 1st day(i think england were around 100-3 after lunch)and trust me there was not more than inch of spin but still he manages to get those wickets which includes openers along with kevin pietersen.swann in ahemdabad(1st test 2012) where on slow flat pitch he took 5 wickets(including well earned wickets of gambhir,sehwag,sachin) on first day of test.Murali has a 16 wicket haul in england which ashwin cannot even dream of. "You say he has to perform well out side India to be considered world class but you also say he should not be given chances based on his “Present Achievements”. I feel that is contradictory." let me clarify it again i never said he should not be given chance(if i ever said that then i accept my mistake),i only said if he does'nt perform in SA he will be replaced by Kuldeep yadav. "Yasir Shah whom you mentioned won two games in England was carted around like a school boy by an Australian team which had just been thrashed 3-0 by Sri Lanka." Again i never said yasir shah,herath,lyon or jadeja are better test bowler than Ashwin.All of them are very good bowlers but none of them are world class atm. I picked AUS,SA,ENG,NZ because they have been top test performing sides(Rankings also suggest that) during last 5-6 years.How many world class bowler have away average of 56.58 away from home against top class sides??if any you can name them."Everyone considers him as a world class bowler" again you're absolutely wrong not everyone considers him as world class bowler. i think i was harsh on comparing him with murali as he is not just world class but ATG(only did it because he was also SC spinner).Better comparison for him would be Swann(last world class spinner and played on almost same era) who was World Class(although not ATG).Swann has taken 73 wickets @ 25.97 in sub continent.In india he averages 28.96.he was main reason why england won 2012 test series where he averaged 24.75 whereas Ashwin averaged more than 50.I know you are again gonna make excuses that he was young,inexperienced etc but how many test matches did swann played in india(only 2) before that series whereas Ashwin was just awarded MOS against Nz(so he was quite experienced) just a month ago.Ashwin could not trouble batsmen like cook,pietersen,prior etc whereas he was bullying NZ inexperienced batsmen just a month ago.Apart from SC,swann has also taken 163 wickets @ 32.44 in non turning pitches of SA,AUS,ENG.you can ask any expert like gavaskar etc they all will say swann was comfortably better bowler than Ashwin ever was . can you imagine how many wickets swann could've taken in india against non indian batsmen.if you really think ASHWIN>SWANN then i will consider you as biased R ashwin fan. you also said jadeja is not world class whereas R ashwin comfortably is(without hesitation).On present achievements(ie current stats/impact/performance),can you prove how Ashwin>Jadeja(check cricinfo) you can even try to manipulate stats in favour of R ashwin . on SC jadeja has taken 134wks @20.74 and R ashwin has 245@22.59 . while outside SC,jadeja averages 46 and R ashwin 56(tbh its useless to compare these overseas stats btw them as both of them has achieved NOTHING outside SC). "there haven’t been anyone matching his wicket taking ability and speed" Again not entirely true. Honestly,i found R jadeja more reliable than ashwin especially on flat slow subcontinent pitches where i have seen ashwin struggle.FOR EX-; recently i can think of ranchi test(2017) and 5th test vs eng(where k nair score triple)On both occasion jadeja was best bowler throught the match and ashwin was worst.you said ashwin was more successful than lyon in Australia but lyon was also more succesfull than R ashwin recently in india .So,Ashwin is not as invincible/untouchable as you make him out to be on Sub continent. "Off course Kuldeep will be better than Jaddu and Ashwin overseas" HAHA so you also believe kuldeep will be more successful than ashwin overseas(you are not only one on this).this show how much confidence you have in Ashwin to perform overseas.but can you say same about Swann "Off course Kuldeep will be better than Swann overseas"?Absolute NO for me.this is difference btw world class spinner and very good spinner. "Wrist spinners always have the advantage over finger spinners as they can take the pitch out of the equation"Agree on advantage.But is there any universal rule that finger spinner cannot take wickets on non turning pitches.world class spinners(whether finger or wrist) should be successful on any type of pitches.need i remind you again about murali record outside SC or swann record on non turning pitches who like ashwin is classical off spinner with even less variations(no carrom ball).again,swann took 163 wickets @ 32.44 on ENG,AUS,SA pitches.Also can you tell me why our ipl legend A mishra averaged over 100 in Eng 2011?. "His numbers are insane and he is going to be the fastest to 300 test wickets." yasir shah also overtake ashwin as quickest spinner to reach 100 wickets he is still no where near world class.he may overtake ashwin as fastest to reach 300 wickets in future but still if he also takes only 24 wickets overseas out of those 300 wickets(that Too at an average of 56.58) against top sides in the world,then still i would not call him world class spinner. you are completely wrong by saying he does'nt need to perform overseas to become world class spinner.Again,i'm not saying he cannot become world class spinner(ofcourse he can if performs well overseas). you are giving him benefit of doubt that he has'nt played enough test overseas so far(then you are also indirectly saying kuldeep( not tested rookie)>Ashwin in overseas).but why double standards,why not also give benefit of doubt to jadeja.why not give benefit of doubt to Lyon who also has great record everywhere except SC(significantly improved in recent tour of india)?why not say all of them are world class spinners and belong in league with murali,warne,kumble,swann?Why not??
Savage
Roar Rookie
Giri,i know i said lets agree to disagree but i think there are way too many points you said which are absolutely wrong. "I respect you but you need to brush up your history a little bit"you're Right as i only followed cricket since 2003 World cup i don't exactly know whether kumble was world class in 90s(so i trust your words).But,he still manages to average 42.43 in 90s which is certainly better than 56.58. since 2000s i only consider warne,murali,kumble and swann as world class spinners.out of them only warne and murali are certified ATGs.you also said i only judge players on stat which is absolutely not true.i have already seen enough of ashwin to say that he is not in same leagues of those 4 bowlers.In 2005 Ashes,shane warne took 3 wickets in first session of 1st day(i think england were around 100-3 after lunch)and trust me there was not more than inch of spin but still he manages to get those wickets which includes openers along with kevin pietersen.swann in ahemdabad(1st test 2012) where on slow flat pitch he took 5 wickets(including well earned wickets of gambhir,sehwag,sachin) on first day of test.murali has a 16 wicket haul in england which ashwin cannot even dream of. "You say he has to perform well out side India to be considered world class but you also say he should not be given chances based on his “Present Achievements”. I feel that is contradictory." let me clarify it again i never said he should not be given chance(if i ever said that then i accept my mistake),i only said if he does'nt perform in SA he will be replaced by Kuldeep yadav. "Yasir Shah whom you mentioned won two games in England was carted around like a school boy by an Australian team which had just been thrashed 3-0 by Sri Lanka." Again i never said yasir shah,herath,lyon or jadeja are better test bowler than Ashwin.All of them are very good bowlers but none of them are world class atm. I picked AUS,SA,ENG,NZ because they have been top test performing sides(Rankings also suggest that) for last 5-6 years.How many world class bowler have away average of 56.58 away from home against top class sides??if any you can name them."Everyone considers him as a world class bowler" again you're absolutely wrong not everyone considers him as world class bowler. i think i was harsh on comparing him with murali as he is not just world class but ATG(only did it because he was also SC spinner).Better comparison for him would be Swann(last world class spinner and played on almost same era) who was World Class(although not ATG).Swann has taken 73 wickets @ 25.97 in sub continent.In india he averages 28.96.he was main reason why england won 2012 test series where he averaged 24.75 whereas Ashwin averaged more than 50.I know you are again gonna make excuses that he was young,inexperienced etc but how many test matches did swann played in india(only 2) before that series whereas Ashwin was just awarded MOS against Nz(so he was quite experienced) just a month ago.Ashwin could not trouble batsmen like cook,pietersen,prior etc whereas he was bullying NZ inexperienced batsmen just a month ago.Apart from SC,swann has also taken 163 wickets @ 32.44 in non turning pitches of SA,AUS,ENG.you can ask any expert like gavaskar etc they all will say swann was comfortably better bowler than Ashwin ever was . can you imagine how many wickets he could've taken in india against non indian batsmen.if you really think ASHWIN>SWANN then i will consider you as biased R ashwin fan. you also said jadeja is not world class whereas R ashwin comfortably is(without hesitation).On present achievements(ie current stats/impact/performance),can you prove how Ashwin>Jadeja(check cricinfo) you can even try to manipulate stats in favour of R ashwin.on SC jadeja has taken 134wks @20.74 and R ashwin has 245@22.59. while outside SC,jadeja averages 46 and R ashwin 56(tbh their overseas stats should not be compared as both of them has achieved NOTHING). "there haven’t been anyone matching his wicket taking ability and speed" Again not entirely true. Honestly,i found R jadeja more reliable than ashwin especially on flat slow subcontinent pitches where i have seen ashwin struggle.FOR EX-; recently i can think of ranchi test(2017) and 5th test vs eng(where k nair score triple)On both occasion jadeja was best bowler throught the match and ashwin was worst.you said ashwin was more successful than lyon in Australia but lyon was also more succesfull than R ashwin recently in india .So,Ashwin is not as invincible/untouchable as you make him out to be on Sub continent. "Off course Kuldeep will be better than Jaddu and Ashwin overseas" HAHA so you also believe kuldeep will be more successful than ashwin overseas(you are not only one on this).but can you say same about Swann "Off course Kuldeep will be better than Swann overseas"?Absolute NO for me. "Wrist spinners always have the advantage over finger spinners as they can take the pitch out of the equation"Agree on advantage.But is there any universal rule that finger spinner cannot take wickets on non turning pitches.world class spinners(whether finger or wrist) should be successful on any type of pitches.need i remind you again about murali record outside SC or swann record on non turning pitches who like ashwin is classical off spinner with even less variations(no carrom ball).again,swann took 163 wickets @ 32.44 on ENG,AUS,SA pitches. "His numbers are insane and he is going to be the fastest to 300 test wickets." yasir shah also overtake ashwin as quickest spinner to reach 100 wickets he is still no where near world class.he may overtake ashwin as fastest to reach 300 wickets in future but still if he also takes only 24 wickets overseas out of those 300 wickets(that Too at an average of 56.58) against top sides in the world,then still i would not call him world class spinner.
Savage
Roar Rookie
Anindya,looks like your prediction is going to be true as it is more than likely he will take 300 wickets against Sri lanka in Nov-Dec.For him to achieve this record in less matches than murali and warne is quite incredible.Hopefully he does well overseas and cements his status as World class bowler.
Anindya Dutta
Roar Guru
@Giri - "His numbers are insane and he is going to be the fastest to 300 test wickets. ". I just realised its been a year since I made this prediction. I might be off by a Test or two but looks like it was a darned good call that got me some flak and support (as always!) at the time on Roar :) http://www.theroar.com.au/2016/09/26/step-aside-lillee-ravi-ashwin-coming-record/
Savage
Roar Rookie
OK lets agree to disagree.I respect your opinion and I can see why you are calling him world class as he has been wicket taking machine over the last 5 years.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
@Savage, I respect you but you need to brush up your history a little bit. Anil Kumble was a world class spinner in the 90's. He was compared to Murali and Warne throughout his career. Kumble only after 2000's became a good bowler overseas. It took time for him to understand and bowl overseas, all this when he was a wrist spinner. Australia is a graveyard for finger spinners, Yasir Shah whom you mentioned won two games in England was carted around like a school boy by an Australian team which had just been thrashed 3-0 by Sri Lanka. Murali averages 75 in Australia. Ashwin is a world class spinner whether you like it or not. You have your opinion, we have ours. Jadeja is as unproven as Ashwin is overseas. Both haven't played enough tests to judge. Ashwin has just played 9 tests in Australia, SA and England combined. He has never played in New Zealand as you kept claiming. You say he has to perform well out side India to be considered world class but you also say he should not be given chances based on his "Present Achievements". I feel that is contradictory. I think Ashwin will be one of India's finest spinners ever, no matter what happens. He will bowl well in England, certain pitches in SA. Not all pitches in SA favour spinners, pace bowlers need to pull their weight. Off course Kuldeep will be better than Jaddu and Ashwin overseas. He is an unknown commodity. He is left arm wrist spinner, a rarity through the history of cricket. Wrist spinners always have the advantage over finger spinners as they can take the pitch out of the equation. This does not mean, Ashwin is a bad spinner. Everyone considers him as a world class bowler, even when bowling on these pitches, there haven't been anyone matching his wicket taking ability and speed. His numbers are insane and he is going to be the fastest to 300 test wickets. How many bowlers aren't world class were able to pick 300 test wickets?
Savage
Roar Rookie
"Your knowledge has to be questioned when you keep mentioning NZ when he has never played a test there." I know exactly he did'nt play in NZ(by that logic,i should'nt have added england where he has bowled in only 1 innings) as he was dropped in place of jadeja after his woeful performance in SA(took 0 wicket) and NZ odi's(where he averaged 227).I only mentioned those 4 countries because he has to perform (atleast decently) in those countries at the end of his career to be called World class spinner(You can add WI,ZIM to help ashwin's cause)"He did not play the Adelaide test where the pitch was turning square.If you see the rest of the 4 games, Ashwin out bowled Lyon" that's actually fair point as he did bowl well in that series and also in 1 innings in Eng where he said he bowled as well as he could. From 2014 Wt20 to end of 2015,he was at his peak. "Anil Kumble’s first 10 years in test cricket, he averaged 40 outside India.would you have dropped him from the team as well as someone who did not deserve to play in those countries again?" ok He did'nt perform but was he called WORLD CLASS SPINNER AT THAT TIME?i hope not.He did average 37 overall in AUS,ENG,SA,NZ that's why he is world class spinner.Also when did i said Ashwin needs to dropped,he will get his oppurtunity and if he fail In SA(like last time) he will be replaced by Kuldeep yadav.Setting muralitharan as benchmark (like Ashwin he was SC spinner)averages 26.5(in those 4 countries) less than half of what Ashwin averages at this Moment.LIke i said you are also assuming that he will perform overseas thus calling him World class spinner but if he does not improve his overseas average then like Anindya said he will not be considered as world class bowler. "Give the guy some space, home or away, he has won you tests. Lots of them, so give your icons some respect" I already said he is very good bowler not Some average bowler. Term "World Class" should not be thrown around unless player deserves it.if R ashwin is world class then i will also consider D Warner as world class player. you can call Ashwin World class Spinner but if he does not improves his overseas average,NO ONE outside India would rate him as World class Spinner.
Anindya Dutta
Roar Guru
Thank you Giri. The color and input is much appreciated. Everything you say here is right. Posterity will show us how badly a section of the Indian populace underestimated what Ashwin is doing for the country right now.
Giri Subramanian
Roar Guru
You keep quoting AUS, NZ, ENG and SA. Lets look little deep into that stats. Ashwin played just 1 test in SA which he was horrible on. He hasn't played a single test in NZ yet. He played 2 tests in England and averaged 33 in them, not bad considering India were skittled out for under 150 in most of the innings and those were green tops. Australia is the only country Ashwin has played sizeable number of tests. Australia has been graveyard for spinners over the years. Even in 2015, Ashwin bowled very well on those flatbeds. You seem to be the one who goes by stats rather than actually watching test matches. He did not play the Adelaide test where the pitch was turning square, poor judgement from Kohli. If you see the rest of the 4 games, Ashwin out bowled Lyon. I am not giving you stats, you can get it from Cricinfo if you need. Your knowledge has to be questioned when you keep mentioning NZ when he has never played a test there. Also you say you are basing your judgement on his present achievements but what you are basing it on is by his past failures. Why is a bowler always treated different to a batsman? Anil Kumble's first 10 years in test cricket, he averaged 40 outside India, this also includes tests in subcontinent. His averages as follows, Australia 90 England 63 SA 32 NZ 40 SL 42 WI 30 would you have dropped him from the team as well as someone who did not deserve to play in those countries again? During the same time he was ripping teams apart at home. Give the guy some space, home or away, he has won you tests. Lots of them, so give your icons some respect. We can pull apart any bowlers record as we want butcher them and prove they were not good, DK Lillie, considered as one of the greats of the game just played 4 tests in the subcontinent and averaged 70 odd (101 in Pakistan and 36 in SL, never played in India). Shall we say Lillie wasn't a great bowler because he bowled only in bowling friendly conditions? And by the way, Jadeja averages 86 in NZ and 47 in England. I don't think he should be picked for those countries either. See my judgement is based on his present achievements not by what he might be able to do if he visits again. See the flaw in that argument?
Savage
Roar Rookie
ok,Difference btw you and me is that you are assuming that he will perform overseas and therefore giving him benefit of doubt but i'm not(cause i'm only judging him on present achievements).if he had even one substantial performance overseas then i'd probably also given him benefit of doubt.Remember centurion test(1st test vs then no 1 team South africa 2013) when india were trying to defend 458 on 4/5 th day.Now,imagine R ashwin took 3-4 wickets(on 5th day of test where you would expect spinner to dominate) and helped india won that test then i'd probably also considered him as world class spinner but instead he went WICKETLESS whole match and match was drawn.
Anindya Dutta
Roar Guru
And modern western spinners can take wickets in asia except in an odd Test. Funny isnt it this life? ?