Kyrie Irving, Isaiah Thomas in blockbuster trade

It surprises me that everyone is so down on the Celtics in this trade. IT is not good enough for a max despite what his ego says. More importantly, we have seen his ceiling. The Celtics did the right thing in unloading him. Irving is a solid upgrade at PG. Crowder hurts because he soaks up PF minutes and is on an absurd contract, but he was in the way of Tatum's development once Hayward arrived and is reportedly not happy with so much competition for his spot. He will thrive in Cleveland no doubt, but he would have been a point of discontent in the Boston locker room. Zizic is nothing, something thrown into the trade that would have ended up being waived anyway at some point anyway. The draft pick is clearly the point of contention. Here's the thing, Boston has too many assets and at some point that actually becomes a problem. A team can't keep stashing players and banking on rookies turning into Steph Curry or Lebron James. Boston still has six picks over the next three years. They haven't ransomed their future. Stevens clearly likes what he sees from Brown who will turn into an elite wing D talent, and Tatum who will develop nicely behind Hayward. I also back Stevens to run a smarter offense and a much smarter defense than Lue - I think Irving will improve under him. The other thing to note is that Irving will be hungry. Chip on the shoulder hungry to prove that he can take the East without the king. Bank on Stevens to use that. I don't think they will take the East this year, but after next season's shake up they will. Ainge has pulled the trigger now because the timeline is right. They have probably overpaid a little bit but the unmentioned aspect to all of this is business - Irving is a bankable superstar. He adds dollars to a franchise just by wearing their jersey.

Pretty close to a win- win as you'll get these days. Still think Kyrie has more potential so slightly in the Celts favour.

Hi Biggest... I must admit this one took me totally by surprise. But I did know Kyrie wanted out of LBJ's shadow, so all things considered, not bad for all concerned. I think ;)

Great deal for the Cavs. Slightly improves their chances next year by hurting the Celtics D and mixing up the matchup with GSW whilst securing a pick for the future for when LeBron leaves.

It seems to benefit the Cavs more than the Celtics. As far as I'm concerned, Kyrie and Isaiah are very similar players. Cavs also got a good defensive player in Crowder. The Celtics on the other hand will be all offense but not too much on the other end. The way I see it the Cavs just gained D. Rose and Crowder to their roster, they didn't lose anyone, they just got another Kyrie Irving. Good for them. They will still beat Celtics in a best of seven.

In Delly's championship year before he left for Milwaukee he finished higher than Kyrie in straight +/-. You merely bit on the bait by ranting numbers as per the norm and in the process creating an argument that Kyrie is pretty good incidentally. It will be interesting to see how all the stats you use to play down Kyrie's game end up under a good coach like Stevens. Makes for a good season ahead. May our discussion continue during it.

Because the Celtics get him minimum for 2 more years (with option for 3rd) and comparative to similar players he will be relatively cheap in 2018-2019 when guys like Isaiah Thomas will be earning more.

Maybe. But that doesn't have to be a bad thing. In his prime, you surround Melo with the right people, and he could have been the best player on an NBA championship team. Even if you consider Kyrie a glorified role player, that 'role' is an important one. And there is no doubt he's a clutch player. Some stats don't show that. He's got at effective fg% of 54% in the last minute of games (plus OT). That beats everyone in the league at the moment, by a fair way. So it's no cliche to say he can win you games. It's just whether that offsets what damage he does to you. He certainly didn't win many games until LeBron came back. And Boston lost their two best defenders this off-season. It's intriguing to see how Boston will do. Of course, I hope it's a failure!

He's a lesser point guard version of Melo.

How is delly better in +/-? I'd have thought even a you knew the minus is bad. So to clear it up it isn't golf. Delly having negative raw, real, adjusted and bpm is bad. Hmm okay. Plus= out scoring which is good Negative=getting outscored which is bad Kyrie was better last year than delly in every +/- I can find and better during delly's career as a whole. I have said time and again, and I know you know this because you respond with insipid counters, I view kyrie as an average to above average starting PG. I have never said delly is an average level starting PG Also I have said multiple times that one number alone is not indicative (real +/- under values shot creators imo hence I said the fit required earlier) but, given you think that the minus is good, I suppose that was never going to get through. Also it does get balanced with the eye test it's just you don't see a petulant Kyrie that won't play D. Even if you say there were years delly has out performed in real +/- you can point to injury and a big underperformance in bpm and most other advanced stats v Irving that would say he's not better.

How is kyrie on a good contract? His salary was more than the Celtic sent over! Also time was on ainge's side.

Matty Delavedova is a better +/- than Kyrie - surely you couldn't argue the Cavs gave up the wrong guy? You could - I know you will.

Huge trade, as a Celts fan sad to see IT ago, the little warrior was so courageous in the playoffs last season. If Kyrie indeed wants to be the man the he needs to hit the ground running as IT was a big fan favourite. The Cavs did well from this deal as it addresses needs, in particular the draft pick. I didn't think Ainge needed to throw this in however given there plethora of draft picks in the future it could be a good gamble. I do think this deal ensures the Celts get closer to the Cavs as Kyrie is a proven big game player.

If the Celtics kept the pick would the Cavs do the trade? Boston were in a situation where they held too many assets and IT would want a Max deal in 2018. Ainge had to do something and every other team low-balled him by all accounts. Kyrie is on a good contract and only 25. The Celtics would have ended up giving away good players because they literally couldn't fit them on the roster. May as well get a Kyrie Irving instead. Celtics now have a super good young core going forward and still have 6 first round picks over the next couple of drafts. If IT's hip is worse than thought the trade would be abysmal for the Cavs. It would be Crowder for Kyrie Irving straight swap - the draft pick is insurance. From all accounts Thomas won't play till December which is a worry.

They sold so low on the Nets pick. IT and Crowder should have been enough.

I don't think he's an upgrade in every way, Thomas does a much better job of creating efficient shots for his team mates. I think he will be a much better second unit creator (Irving was a train wreck in that role) but he is one of the few guys worse at defending but at least it won't be an effort thing. On court impact I think it's an evenish swap but given age the Celtic win if it were one for one. Crowder is a plus minus king ironically because he actually does the non highlight reel crap that you need with a guy like Irving. So not sure about the balance but Crowder was P. O.'d massively so they had to. Just Crowder and Thomas I'd take the cavs side every time. A high first rounder is potentially the best piece in the trade. Now it's a landslide. Then you throw in tax relief and a euro prospect for some cherry on top. I think the Celtics went too early here with the God father offer.

No other suitors for Kyrie? You are kidding aren't you?? Nets pick might be 4 or 5. Bulls, Hawks, Knicks, Pacers all could be worse and will boost nets win column which will put the worst team in West (NO, Kings, Mavs, Grizz or Clips) in range. Ainge rolling the dice had to be done - there just weren't enough minutes available for all their players and future players.

That they certainly did Steve, but their team overall is much better than the list of unknowns that played with Lopez. That is provided D'Angelo Russell is as good as people think. The Nets could win 20 again and only finish 4th worst record this season. Chicago are positioning for worst record, Atlanta will fight them for it and the Pacers are very good chance to be awful. And then there's the Knicks. With so many bad teams in the East it will be hard for teams that play hard to lose more than 50 games.

I have to agree. I am not sure how the Cleveland Cavs wriggled there way out of this situation, but to me at least, they look a much stronger team after this deal. Is it enough to keep LeBron in Cleveland, only time will tell.

They were too crowded at fwd. Added Tatum and Hayward. Hayward is a very good defender and Jaylen Brown is an excellent on ball defender and needs more minutes. Bradley and Crowder were in the way of these guy's getting minutes. They've added Baynes as well.