Which teams would make the cut in an A-League second division?

"So what is going to happen if these clubs who are performing well in the various NPL’s gain entry into an improved system of full time professionalism ,are they going to jump on the “European player” bandwagon and further cut down on the available paths for young Australian players." If second division sides can sign players like Besart Berisha or Filip Hološko it just makes the league more popular, is that a bad thing? If the A-League sides improve and raise their standards and the second division gets closer to today's A-League standard then you have to look at a third division. "We then drop to the FFA Cup where due to the system we find the draw rigged to “help ” lower division teams gain some success over HAL teams just started training." That's why I like the idea of a league cup between the first and second divisions with 32 teams. The top 8 teams from the A-League get put into different groups and the rest get drawn at random. After that anything can happen, like the world cup. That would be better than just a top 8 finals series. "Nick- you have obviously put a lot of thought and research into your articles." Sometimes yes, other times not so much.

Nick- you have obviously put a lot of thought and research into your articles. Might I be allowed to come at your solutions from a different angle. Starting at our top league the HAL we find that most of the teams are still very dependent on bringing overseas players into the country to fill their critical positions in the team. The rules limit this activity but the clubs are already by-passing the rules by getting rid of players who have not quite fulfilled their promise and replacing them with some more "trialists"from Europe or other regions. We then drop to the FFA Cup where due to the system we find the draw rigged to "help " lower division teams gain some success over HAL teams just started training.The disturbing factor is that when watching these "cup ties" we invariably hear the commentators describing many of the NPL team players as having some experience at different clubs in the HAL. so in fact we are seeing the same conditions applied as in the HAL,"critical positions" being filled with players who have already had the benefits of "HAL experience" albeit it very limited So what is going to happen if these clubs who are performing well in the various NPL's gain entry into an improved system of full time professionalism ,are they going to jump on the "European player" bandwagon and further cut down on the available paths for young Australian players. Just some food for thought. Cheers jb.

Foundation principle number #4 - no conference system.

When I submitted the article I included a list of all the clubs who made up the NSL and a second list made up of all the ones I didn't think would be suitable from the first to make up a second division. If you look at the list of clubs that wouldn't make the cut and then compare that to a list of ones that could it's very clear that a national second division won't be a repeat of the NSL as many who oppose the idea seem to fear. Whenever there's a debate over a second division and P/R you always get people saying that it would just end up being a repeat of the NSL. I just wanted to illustrate the contrast between that and what a national second division might actually look like by comparison. In fact there were only 8 NSL clubs that I thought might be able to make the step up, so the claim that the A-League would be swamped by mono-ethnic clubs or Morwells who would wreck the joint seems exaggerated. In a worst case scenario if there were ethnic violence related issues at matches FFA could make teams play in front of empty stadiums as a sanction or if it repeats, throw them out of the competition altogether. That also goes for any other club. FFA have stated in the past (they can flip-flop) that they would have two divisions of 16 teams for 32 in total, so that's where I was coming from with my numbers. But I don't think P/R should happen before there are 16-18 teams in the A-League. NSL CLUBS WITH A-LEAGUE BIDS Wollongong Wolves Brisbane City Brisbane Strikers South Melbourne Adelaide City OTHERS THAT COULD MAKE THE CUT Canberra City - (Merger with Canberra United W-League team?) Sydney Olympic Melbourne Knights - (They have Chinese backing / interest) http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/melbourne-knights-approached-by-a-chinese-consortium-about-a-jointventure-aleague-license/news-story/30b0426186c7da51316a20d4b31ef06d 2002 NSL BID - Chinese backed http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/12/02/1038712881832.html OFF THE SECOND DIVISION LIST A-LEAGUE TEAMS Brisbane Lions (Roar) Adelaide United Newcastle United Perth Glory REPRESENTED OR BETTERED BY ALTERNATIVE BIDS Marconi Stallions - Fairfield Sydney United - Fairfield Wollongong Macedonia West Adelaide STADIUMS NOT UP TO SCRATCH Blacktown City Heidelberg United A.P.I.A. Leichhardt Green Gully Northern Spirit Sydney City Canterbury-Marrickville DEFUNCT Penrith City Preston Lions Footscray JUST Sunshine George Cross St George Saints Western Suburbs Parramatta Eagles Parramatta Power Mooroolbark Morwell Falcons Newcastle Breakers Newcastle KB United Newcastle Rosebud United Inter Monaro Brunswick Juventus Canberra Cosmos Carlton Collingwood Warriors Football Kingz

I want a truly National 2nd Division & have 3 foundation principles: 1) Whole of Australia to be involved 2) Financial benchmarks to be fulfilled Filtering process 3) Clubs must have had on-field success in NPL era I want to start with 14 team NPL: VIC, NSW, QLD = 3 NNSW, ACT, SA, WA, TAS = 1 I don't know enough about NPL clubs outside Victoria, so my choice for Victoria would be: Bentleigh Greens Heidelberg Utd Sth Melb

It shows we have the numbers to cater for 16 teams in the 1st div and 14 teams in the 2nd.

Nick - I find it hard to follow the thread of your debate material ,especially the numbers you cite. Let me explain. When the NSL was set up it consisted of 14 teams to play out the 1977 season. Counting expected "failures" due to performance or financial reasons this was to remain the size of the NSL until the disasterous seasons 1984 and 85 when the parent body .the ASF, decided to copy the American idea and came up with a 2 conference system that consisted of 25 teams.The less said about this period the better, enough to say many clubs found it a bridge too far and fell away from the competition When the league was re- engineered in 1987 there were only 13 participating clubs and even then there were still clubs dropping out. This state of affairs was to last through to 2004 when in it's last year the NSL again could only find 13 teams to fill the original 14 identity format. Now I appreciate the "wastage" figures in the competition were high but it is when those figures are analysed the weakness in the system begins to emerge. Clubs,many backed by ethnically based social clubs,found it extremely hard to prove their viability to their "parent body" and so the "axe was wielded",simply a finance situation that had very little to do with the standard of football being purveyed on the fields. Cheers jb.

For me it would be McArthur Sydney Southern Wollongong South Melbourne Dandenong Hobart Gold Coast City ( made 2 FFA Cups QFs in 3 attempts Brisbane Strikers or City Adelaide City CanberrA A second Perth team Townsville