Football lovers are living in a glass house. We need to be careful about throwing stones

@Chris hahahaha LOL

Hi, Joy of OX, you say, 1/ Thus, do Shute and Subbies have the biggest adult numbers in ONE city in the world?" I doubt it, but certainly in Australia. also, you say, 2/ Your views on which contact football code will have the most numbers of females playing CONTACT football in Sydney, and rest of NSW, by 2028? " Mate, I have no idea, you may as well ask who will win the 2028 Melbourne Cup.

@CS 3.4 For clarity, I was including Sydney Subbies with the Shute Shield (as they both cover metro Sydney, and the former can feed the latter's lower Grades). I was not including the SJRU, which has had a long term major decline in Club numbers (from U13's upwards). Thus, do Shute and Subbies have the biggest adult numbers in ONE city in the world? Your views on which contact football code will have the most numbers of females playing CONTACT football in Sydney, and rest of NSW, by 2028? It is an amazing social phenomenon, unforseen 10 years ago.

Nice to hear from you, The Joy of Ox, very interesting posting, You say, "The Sydney Shute Shield, the biggest Union competition in the world, has had strong growth in the last 2 years – in crowds, Ratings, and media interest." Mate, I am a Shute Shield person, but unfortunately, it is not the biggest in the world, but you are correct elsewhere. You also say, ""Union is underperforming in Sydney’s west, particularly considering there are many Islanders living there. Is this why you are “concerned’? ' You hit the nail on the head if you have time, you may care to read some postings today by a young bloke, the link is "https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/04/03/analysing-the-state-of-rugby-in-australia/

@CC 2.4 The Sydney Shute Shield, the biggest Union competition in the world, has had strong growth in the last 2 years - in crowds, Ratings, and media interest. Union is underperforming in Sydney's west, particularly considering there are many Islanders living there. Is this why you are "concerned'? Or the Wallabies record against NZ? (but Australia performed very well in the last World Cup). In early 2017, the Morgan Poll came out with very negative Union participation numbers. The ARU quickly rebutted the Morgan poll. It released the correct, much higher Union numbers, from its own, obviously, FAR more accurate and comprehensive (unless one prescribes to the nemesis/post hoc view of superiority of polls) Registration data base. Polls try to sample small numbers from EVERY metro, regional, and rural area. Union will always be disadvantaged by such small numbers being polled over diverse areas. Its players tend to be concentrated in small pockets of middle class/affluent areas. Union is having great success in its "Game On" primary school programs; and some success in female Rugby 7 participation growth. In Sydney, and NSW (not including Southern NSW; and not including Touch or Tag Rugby), by 2028, will Australian Football, Union, or League be likely to have the most number of female players playing the full contact version of these respective sports? Your reasons? It should be noted that Australian Football is having strong growth in female numbers in Sydney, and throughout NSW; and the Penrith District Rugby League recently announced about 1,000 females will be playing competition 'Rugby League' in 2018, in the PDRL. I'm not sure if the latter is for the League tag only -or for contact Rugby League, or both.

FF brace yourself for the authors response. Lots of "haha's and lol's" and "your just jealous".

CS I know of at least 4 players who play in NPL1 womens teams getting recruited to play AFLW (GWS). Never have played the game and do it purely for the money. (8k minimum). Not bad money for 8 games or whatever it is.

Janakan, that is the most absurd article I have read. You are so one-sided and narrow-minded. It is football that is always being attacked by AFL/NRL fans and journalists. Are we not allowed to retaliate/protect our turf? You waffle on with the same old tired and baseless cliches like football fans entertaining themselves because not enough goals are scored and how AFL is more exciting because it is high scoring. Oh please. Please tell me you can come up with a more intelligent article than this piece of trash. Woeful journalism.

The Joy of Ox, I don't know sufficient to comment whether the ARU's official numbers are reliable or not. But I don't live in a cocoon or a daydreamer like our mate Aligee, the worst code in Australia administration wise is Rugby Union, mainly because of their ineffectual Board of Directors, and I am a member of a Rugby club in Sydney.

@ Concerned Supporter 2.4 -10.25am Good comment. I believe the sporting Organizations would freely admit that their (otherwise very detailed) numbers would include many people who are double/triple counted. None of them "cross reference" the recorded individual registered names with both Club AND school players playing the same sport, but in DIFFERENT competitions etc. This double/triple counting issue is especially relevant for the FFA, Cricket, Basketball,Netball, Tennis, swimming, Hockey, athletics. These sports are either non-contact or, with soccer, minimal contact. Thus, it is far easier for these above sports to count Double numbers for players who play both school AND Club -because players in these sports do not feel the physical exhaustion/battering/soreness/injuries that are common in the FULL CONTACT and Tackling codes of Australian Football, League, and Union (particularly after U14 level). These 3 latter football codes are far less likely to have players who play both Club AND school -so are only being counted correctly (ie ONCE) in the Sport Organization Official numbers. These 3 football codes are also only played, at community level, in winter. The above mentioned other sports are played ALL YEAR (including soccer's futsal), in DIFFERENT competitions -so the same individual players could be counted 3 times by an Organization!! Most schools have Gala Days once a year, for ALL students in the WHOLE school, in athletics and swimming. Thus, for the polling organizations like AusPlay etc (who ridiculously -except for Nemesis- count someone as a "participant" even if the person only played the sport ONCE in the last TWELVE months!), in their VERY small Surveys, are far more likely to "pick up"/count a "participant" in swimming and athletics. There is also the big methodological problem of one-off Gala Days which capture 1,000,000+ kids pa? How much do they really contribute to a sport's following/player base/culture/"presence"? It should be noted that the AFL and FFA clearly separate these Gala Day participants in their Official detailed Reports Strangely, the FFA has promoted higher AusPlay "indiscriminate" soccer participant numbers in their marketing and promotional material (and is why Nemesis likes AusPlay). Should the FFA be held to account for this disingenous marketing? Incidentally, CC, why exactly are you a "Concerned Supporter"? And why do you seem to imply ARU Official numbers are particularly unreliable?

"Perhaps they factored in family, friends at AFL 9’s, school and god forbid even after school AUSKICK grid games." Now you are getting close, if they did, they should explained the basis of their calculations, rather than a bullsh-t EXACT figure for the full year.Notice that you say perhaps. I would imagine that Football/Soccer would have more than 14,722 teams playing throughout Australia, don't you? But the FFA is more responsible in giving Mickey Mouse, hypothetical s for EXACT attendance at all games during the year. than your beloved AFL.

Unless my maths is off - using the annual report from 2016 there were 14,722 teams should those teams play an average of 12 games each it would come to around 176,000 games, if we divide 176,000 into 8,000,000 we get 45 spectators per game. My maths may be off here - not sure.

Reporting standards for sporting bodies. Maybe the Federal Government should investigate whether the existing reporting standards for sporting bodies in Australia are adequate FFA, AFL , NRL and most definitely the ARU/RA...& others.

You are hung up on it and you cant read, reading and following is a big asset, if the methodology they used was to count everything they could by adding up all the leagues that do report crowd numbers and there is quite a few they would come to a number that looks unusual. Then for the leagues that don't report, they probably have a method that adds an average number to that unusual number, therefore still ending with a unusual number, i am not a mathematician, but that sounds pretty basic to follow - yes?. Whatsmore in 2016 according to their annual report there was 230 leagues, 2755 clubs and 14,722 teams playing just CLUB community football, that's a lot of games. Perhaps they factored in family, friends at AFL 9's, school and god forbid even after school AUSKICK grid games. You seem to be getting triggered like Fuss now.

"Lest face it, it really doesnt sound that far fetched when there would be literally thousands upon thousands of games, at the end of the day it may be over, under or about right but are you really that hung up on it ?." I am not hung up on it, just surprised that sheep like yourself believe that the AFL are infallible We know there are thousands of games, that is why the AFL exact attendance figure to the nearest person is utter Bullsh--., and should be challenged , not accepted by it's weak kneed supporters like yourself.The AFL should be called out for publishing such contentious and unsubstantiated information.Melbourne sporting journalists!! Don't they have any back bone? Do you think that their attendance figures have been audited by some one like Deloittes? I certainly don't..

The mysterious case of the missing 8 million fans.

I fail to see whats so weird that you seem to be so consumed by it, I can tell you that in round 14 2017 Swan Districts V East Perth at Bassendean Oval drew 3,544 fans, plenty of leagues do keep specific figures. So i guess when they factor in all the different leagues that do actually keep crowd figures you would come to a specific number, then i would have thought they have a method to round up or down as the case may be for leagues that don't report or keep specific figures such as lower grade, some country, kids, school etc, I would have thought many games would get roughly the same amount of parents, friends, family attend. But the initial counting would probably lead to the odd amount. I actually like talking stats. Lest face it, it really doesnt sound that far fetched when there would be literally thousands upon thousands of games, at the end of the day it may be over, under or about right but are you really that hung up on it ?. Lets also face the FACT you have been wrong about plenty of other things, the most recent where you claimed GWS average crowds were 9,000 at Spotless and increased by Manuka crowds - you were 100% wrong on both points.

Not as silly as the AFL propaganda people. '* There were 15,827,586 spectators at Australian Football matches in 2017. Of the total attendances, 48.6 per cent were at AFL matches (including the new AFLW competition). " 48.6% of 15,827,586 = 7,692,826 people, his figure may be able to be substantiated, BUT 51.4% = 8,135,619 people at other AFL matches during the year ?????????, unsubstantiated guess work. If the AFL was an ASX listed company, with auditors & shareholders,and specific reporting standards to the public, this information would not be given on their annual report unless it could be substantiated 100%. If it was wrong, certain shareholders who acquired these hypothetical AFL shares on the ASX could sue for damages,if they could prove that these important attendance figures were bodgie, or alternately if the AFL could not substantiate these attendance figures.They could claim that they were misled & deceived, and paid too much for their AFL shares.

What's to cover up ?, you are sounding more like fuss on every post. You asked me a question i cant possibly answer 100%, then after getting the specifics of who to really ask how they got to a specific number you state you don't trust them and somehow they are covering up and sweeping stuff under the carpet. I am guessing you dont realise how silly you look.

Aligee, you say, "So i suggest you contact the AFL or Street Ryan and Assoc if you have further questions," I have zero inclination to contact the AFL or Street Ryan and Assoc.I don't trust their bodgie figures, Would they cover up, would they sweep under the carpet? Exact attendance figures to the nearest person in all other games excluding the AFL, for the year. This is impossible to achieve.