Assessing the A-League expansion bids – part 1: NSW and Victoria

Thanks for the wrap-up, The Crowd, although your own bias shines through a bit too much. I understand why you did it though and it's pretty hard not to let our personal preferences get in the way! ;-) ...And don't get me wrong, I'm no Southern Expansion sympathiser, but your analysis of them in particular seems clouded by our own preferences. However, in order to create a little debate, here's my two cents on the NSW bids (as I don't know much about the other ones tbh), which hopefully have an element of truth in them... Southern Expansion Even before one tries to pick apart their abuse of statistics & PR-spin of dreams, has a major problem - which I don't think they will ever be able to fix. Listening to them, it's a great-sounding bid once you filter out the political lyricism and get down to the nuts & bolts of it (good financial backing from private sector,plans for own privately-funded stadium With good transport links, partnerships with local organisations in both pblic & private sector, football people working in the organisation, boost to local community & facilities, etc.). However, despite them (& others) alluding to how St George Illawarra Dragons have developed since the two individual ARL Clubs merged all those years ago, they're trying to please too many different groups at the same time. I'd venture to state football (soccer) is a bit more tribal than NRL - yes, there are very strong rivalries that go back a long way in NRL (eg: Roosters vs. Dragons, Manly vs Parra, etc.), but what lots of people can agree with is that what sets football apart is our ability to have fans that celebrate & follow the game in a different, much more passionate way & therefore the tribalism inherent in that is stronger - just look at all the pining to get back to how things were when the RBB came into the League... Trying to be a 'jack-of-all-trades' type club for 3 spearate regions is going to end up making Southern Expansion a 'master-of-nothing'. Wollongong have quite clearly stated that they don't consider themselves a part of Sydney (how could you when you're almost 70km from the CBD?), yet to say fans in St George don't consider themselves a part of Sydney is just ludicrous & bordering on legally insane. It's one thing to argue that fans from St George haven't become SFC fans for whatever reason you want - plenty of truth to that statement too. However, it's something completely different to argue that those fans don't affiliate themselves with Sydney, the city - Kogarah Oval is less than 20km from the CBD. For some perspective, Parramatta Stadium is 35km away - and that's considered the geographical centre of the city! Simply put, Southern Expansion will end up being a plaything for a rich Chinese businessman looking for a entrance into investing in Australia via football and when the initial hype & charm wears off, the remenants will be less than a struggling CCM that is unloved by almost everyone. South-West Sydney This is obviously an attractive proposition given there are 3 bids that are connected to the area in some capacity. Whilst this bid - which has already tried to get in the League via getting involved with Wellington Phoenix - started to gain some traction early on in the EOI stage, it seems to me to be 2nd least attractive bid now as the positives it may have spruiked once have been drowned out by the clammer of others. That they have lost the support of the local FA is hardly an endorsement of the bids ability to deliver so it's probably not going to make the cut for the shortlist going forward, in my opinion. The Liverpool area is arguably also not enough of a geographic point of difference given it's on WSW' doorstep (less than 20km away) & only 40km from the CBD (despite Sydney's Notorious traffic congestion). With other bids having entered the race, the appeal of what was initially on paper a possible new entity has waned in comparison. United4Macarthur This bid is from the Macarthur region to the South-West of Sydney and is arguably the most attractive bid of all 4 from NSW. They have football people & local Council/community involved, the stadium is already there & meets A-League requirements, there's a geographical divide to an untapped market that has a football culture at grassroots.They also plan to have a members component to club ownership similar to the Bundesliga, which is widely renowned for it's benefits to supporters. And now they have the financial clout from the big end of town in Walker Corporation. Is this the quintessential horse, that storms down the outside from back in the field? They were hardly heard of when FFA announced the EOI stage would commence, yet they seem to have timed their publicity run to perfection and have even drawn praise from SFC (you can debate whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it obviously can influence their chances positively if a current A-League club publically backs their bid). As it stands now, this is my favourite to win one of the 2 licences - regardless of location - for a variety reasons, nt least due to FFA's propensity to fawn over what Fox Sports wants and a new team in Sydney is arguably at the top of Fox Sports' wishlist. Wollongong Wolves is also an attractive bid, but I question whether it's a case of the heart over the head - the romance of the NSL & as The Crowd wrote, the possible Derby conotations seem to be more emotional reasons for inclusion in the A-League and I'm wondering whether Wollongong can provide enough support for it's own team. Is it going to be another Newcastle or another CCM? That's arguably the biggest unknown with their bid and maybe if they had more financial backing - they were rumoured to have brought on Bruce Gordon, owner of WIN Corporation - then I might be more partial to them, but I just can't help but doubt their ability to really add a lot ot the League. Seeing as this whole process is somewhat manufactured and not like the organic nature of promotion & relegation, it's exactly the need for strong Financial backing at the start in order to bring more fans onboard than just those who currently follow the club that will determine how well their entry to the League would be.

I was born in St George, grew up in Sutherland and now live in Wollongong. There is no way I will support Southern Expansion and no way they will ever unite the fans. Wollongong Wolves deserve the right to stand alone and represent the Illawarra/South Coast region. If other teams from other areas are picked in favour of the Wolves, so be it. If Southern Expansion is picked in favour of the Wolves, then we will all know the A-Leagues motive is money driven with no interest in football history or fans.

Melbourne Victory is very clearly representative of the CBD and inner city areas of Melbourne, and putting a 3rd team out in Dandenong would further help clarify this identity. Melbourne City don't have a clear area they represent (they should build their own stadium out near their training base in Bundoora in the North east of the city). So both the Southern Expansion and South Sydney bids look like they'd be a repeat of Melbourne City which hasn't worked out at all.

Agreed the Western Melbourne bid won't gain a lot of interest with people in Geelong or Ballarat and don't really see the point of their bid. A lot of areas they'd be drawing support from would already be a Victory stronghold. They should've stayed in Geelong and formed an alliance with the Geelong AFL team and got funding to build a 15,000 seat stadium. If a team in Geelong really gets involved with the community then the community will respond in kind. The SE Melbourne bid is a better one but absolutely no way should the stadium be made to house rugby games as well.

Love the idea of wolves back in top flight Got the fan base & massive football region Western Melbourne sounds like it ticks all the boxes (The more football specific stadia the better) Don’t know much about the area though Canberra should be represented in HAL Doesn’t seem strange with have a NZ team before our capital city But saying that would Canberrans turn up?? Southern expansion wouldn’t touch it Too many regions to represent I do like the Macarthur bid Makes sense for a team down there It is it’s own region just like Wollongong Wouldn’t takeaway much from WSW Maybe FC though But easily could fill up a 2nd division with some of these bids

Needs to be the gong in first and foremost; they bring a footballing heartland and history, one of the better stadiums you’ll experience, a dedicated region that will have pride in their team, dedicated media coverage from the local stations and Illawarra Mercury. Next I think the Macarthur or south east Melbourne bids look like decent options.

Beer coaster economics; $10M is chump change for a licence. There are currently 10 clubs,in near future, possibly another 6. Exponentially, another 6 teams would give the A-League clout. TV rights, better players, improved standard, bigger crowds,etc A cornerstone for a viable P&R, 2nd Div,in the following decade.

NEWS - NEW ADELAIDE CLUB TO HAVE "$100 MILLION BUDGET" South Australia's entrant into the A-League expansion race, West Adelaide, reportedly has huge financial backing from an English-based consortium. The Adelaide Advertiser is reporting that a new West Adelaide A-League and W-League bid will have a $100 million budget courtesy of an anonymous investment group. - “They already have clubs in Europe and one in Africa and the one in Australia that would be a starter club,‘’ Haralampopoulos told The Advertiser. “The operation would be very simple and the only pathway the new club would have is through West Adelaide." The bid would base itself at an under-development sports complex in Kilburn, having secured $4.5 million in government funding towards the project. Kilburn is also destined to be site to a 5,000 capacity football stadium, however it was originally reported the bid was interested in staging their matches at Adelaide United's home ground, Hindmarsh Stadium. https://www.fourfourtwo.com.au/news/new-adelaide-club-to-have-100-million-budget-491836

What does southern expansion actually mean is it south Sydney fc or Cronulla fc or lotus fc there is no actual area called southern expansion in Sydney will this actually be the name of the team what will it's fan base chant be go expansion go go go and how does the South Coast of NSW fit in to this area some two or three hours from where we South Coast fans live like Kiama or Nowra or the Shoalhaven they are all south coast towns that have big soccer communities do you seriously think they will have any connection within team. with a name like southern expansion you could actually include canberra in or even Albury wadonga becuase it's not an actual area per se.its an infinite make believe fantasy non exisistant area where one bid group can add non exisistant registered players from far afield to their bid to make the bid look good but the reality is quite different .

Wollongong must be in the A league

The Western Melbourne bid is doing the same as the South Sydney bid. People from Ballarat would have no affinity for a team in Werribee. I suspect people in areas like Ballarat, Moonee Ponds or Sunshine are less likely to travel to Werribee than Melbourne. It will be interesting to see what parcel of land they think they can a stadium on.

I'll be very disappointed if the Gong miss out

Who gets to host the derbies, Sutherland or Wollongong?

The hatred coming from the illawarra south coast and Wollongong is real . we don't want to have a bar of being a third wheel in any Sydney team we are not sydney .Where will the home games be played split between three stadiums St George cronulla and wollongong what three home games a year .its absurd .there are no synergies between the south coast and sydney i live in Nowra i am not travelling two hours one way to Sydney to support a Sydney team . we support the Wollongong wolves thats our team on the south coast .we are not Sydney we are Wollongong on the south coast of nsw . Wollongong is NSW third largest city we have 15,000 registered players and 13,000 registered juniors we have history and a purpose built stadium of our own. like Newcastle we want our own team or nothing .what about sydney fc .it will cannibalise their territory st george area is sydney fc territory .

Found this exchange on Facebook - David Magro: Are you guys the same group originally with a bid based in Geelong? Western Melbourne Group: We were never a Geelong bid. We always said Western Victoria but have now zeroed in on an actual location. We intend to service a wide community. Stay tuned, we have so much to announce #DreamBIG https://www.facebook.com/pg/WesternMelbourneGroup/posts/?ref=page_internal Images of proposed stadium can be enlarged by clicking on them.

As a resident of Wollongong, I can say that everybody that I talk to HATES the Southern Expansion concept.

Decent read of those bids the Campbelltown bid in NSW makes IMO the best long term sense.

And what parts of Melbourne do Victory and Melb CIty represent. Its called the Southern expansion, like southern Sydney, I can understand that. They are based in the Sutherland Shire and will have their home ground at Loftus. At least they don't have to travel to Canberra to play or drum up supporters, like some Western Sydney Victorian Rules team did.

Maybe Buddy might know if Macarthur or Penrith bids will affect the wsw fan base or possibly add a rival. My thoughts are Wollongong before southern I’m not sure on the Melbourne bids . West east south .. leave that to Victorians . But.....If all these teams want to be involved and can afford to compete until the next tv deal ,, and that’s the big if .. then bring them all in over the next 4 years.

I'm a little perplexed at the claims made by some of the bids as to the regions they will represent. Successful teams tend to represent clear areas, whether it is whole cities such as Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane or regions like West Sydney and Central Coast. The Southern Expansion bid and the South West bid seem to be adding areas just so that they can claim they have access to more people when question marks have to be raised against whether those regions will clearly identify with that team.