Round 21 Talking Points: Broncos loom as Panthers’ main threat, Souths in danger zone, Holmes binning 'massive over-reaction'

By Michael Hagan / Expert

Brisbane are at the front of the queue for the contenders who will challenge Penrith for the premiership due to their combination of strength, speed and smarts.

Their win over South Sydney was the standout performance of Round 21 and they have all the ingredients to make a decent run at the title.

With Payne Haas and Patrick Carrigan they have two of the most damaging middle forwards in the NRL – so often the other night it was one than the other to build momentum in the middle third.

Their leg speed and their power is hard to handle. And it’s not just their size and strength in hitting the ball up and bending back the defenders. They’ve both developed late footwork just before the line and can find a pass too.

Haas is 23 and nearly has 100 games and Carrigan is 25 and not far behind him in matches – they’re coming into their own as far as knowing how to prepare well. They’re both Origin and Test players who know how to perform at a consistently high level.

Patrick Carrigan. (Photo by Bradley Kanaris/Getty Images)

One of Joey Johns’ many great strengths was he was never shy about demanding more from his forwards, whether that was an extra hit-up or a quicker play-the-ball and Adam Reynolds does the same thing for this Broncos side.

Reynolds has probably had conversations with them about how important it is for them to set the standards and they had the Rabbitohs constantly backpedalling.

And then when they’ve got that momentum, Reynolds directs the ball out wide to Brisbane’s quicker guys. He’s got the option of Herbie Farnworth or Kotoni Staggs on either edge and Reece Walsh popping up all over the place with his acceleration into space.

They have come through the Origin period fairly well and the squad seems pretty healthy.

It’s a pretty potent formula they’ve got going at the moment.

Rabbitohs leaving their run too late

Souths have dropped out of the top eight on the back of their loss to Brisbane and they can’t get Latrell Mitchell back into the team quick enough.

It’s a worry that he hasn’t played for them since May because of his calf tear. Souths have said that they were being cautious by giving him another week to get right but something is off with how long it’s taken to get him back on the field.

It’s nearly derailed their year as far as continuity, confidence and the team clicking at the right time of year.

He’s going to be underdone as far as match fitness goes and will probably take a week or two to get back to his best.

They had Jai Arrow and Campbell Graham back from injury and their NSW reps back on Friday night but they didn’t play well as a team.

Their usually slick combinations didn’t seem to be there in attack so Cody Walker, Lachlan Ilias and Damien Cook need to take ownership of that and get it right quick smart.

I saw that Jason Demetriou was quite critical of his team after the game which is unusual for him to do that publicly.

They’ve got some fundamental team issues with guys trying do things on their own and that is leading to them not completing their sets.

They’re losing touch with the top four now and it’s going to be pretty hard to get back in there given that the Rabbitohs are four points adrift now with only six more rounds to go.

After going to the Sunshine Coast for this game, they’ve got a lot of travel ahead with the Tigers in Tamworth, Sharks in Perth, Dragons in Cairns and Knights in Newcastle.

They’re treating it as like a camp by being on the road together but it’s going to be a bumpy period.

Souths still have time to turn it around and by no means am I writing them off but they need to show some urgency in these next few weeks to get back up near the top four.

Holmes sin-binning a ‘massive over-reaction’

The Cowboys celebrated Jake Granville’s 200th NRL game in style with Scott Drinkwater and Tommy Dearden once again outstanding as they made it six wins on the trot.

Coen Hess and Jordan McLean are rolling their sleeves up every week in the middle of the ruck and I was relieved to see Valentine Holmes only get a fine, no suspension, for his tackle on Eels half Mitchell Moses.

The decision to send Holmes to the sin bin was a massive over-reaction to a quality, ball-and-all tackle. All of those old players and coaches of my era would not be impressed.

A bloke I played alongside at the Bulldogs back in the 1980s, David Gillespie would have been sin-binned every 20 minutes of his illustrious career.

Roosters rise back into contention

That was a much-needed win for the Roosters on Saturday over the Gold Coast, easily the best they’ve played for a long time.

It’s funny how some clubs have the wood over other ones. The Roosters dominate the Titans and James Tedesco seems to always rip into them.

Although Newcastle are the reverse of Melbourne so maybe they were due.

Jackson Hastings had a few nice touches so it’s good to see him delivering for the Knights against a quality team like the Storm. And in demand Bradman Best has returned from Origin in a confident mood.

For the most part Melbourne have had a strong year but they’ve thrown in those poor performances from time to time, which Craig Bellamy spoke about after the game, and may still be feeling the effects of losing so many experienced players from their pack at the end of last year.

(Photo by Getty Images/Getty Images)

Just like Haas and Carrigan are laying the platform for Brisbane, you could see that the Titans looked less intimidating in the middle with Tino Fa’asuamaleaui out suspended.

Parramatta were a bit the same with Reagan Campbell-Gillard not around against the Cowboys because he was banned for dropping the knees the week before.

Those big forwards who can get your side some momentum are irreplaceable and their lack of discipline is going to hurt their sides for a few weeks.

On the back of Origin when you’re mentally and physically fatigued those sort of things happen.

The race for the top four has opened up a little bit with the Storm and Raiders losing.

I saw that Ricky Stuart was not happy about Canberra not getting a try to Seb Kris against the Warriors just before halftime but that to me looked like incidental contact and the dominant team on the night won.

The Warriors are up to third now and with their run home they should be able to stay in the top four.

(Photo by Tim Allsop/Getty Images)

Panthers pounce, Sea Eagles soar

Penrith got all their big guns back as they start to head for the home straight in their premiership defence with a comprehensive win over the Bulldogs on Sunday.

Nathan Cleary was quickly back on the pace and combined well with his normal accomplices. The Bulldogs looked a fair bit off the pace in the first 40 minutes as the Panthers set up the victory before cruising in the second half.

The Dogs scored a few late but that will have done little to console their diehard fans.

The Sharks are in freefall and the number of team changes did very little to change the quality of their performance against Manly.

A lack of execution and some poor discipline at that start of the game invited Manly to take control and Daly Cherry-Evans accepted the invite and put his stamp on the game.

After a couple of sub-par efforts from his team, the Sea Eagles are now back in the playoff hunt even though they nearly threw it away late with the Sharks scoring 26 straight points to only lose by four in the end.

The Crowd Says:

2023-07-27T10:15:06+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


Thanks. I have watched all the grand finals since 1964 except for 1976. Good Luck.

2023-07-27T10:05:11+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


Thanks for the link, I'll watch it later but I did see this :- 'After no-nonsense Dogs prop Peter Kelly floored Wynn with a punch after a scrum and ended up with a penalty being awarded to his own team, Canterbury kept on grinding.'. I'll take it up with them.

2023-07-27T09:57:16+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


Glad you pulled through mate… footy has just started so why don’t we just enjoy the game

2023-07-27T09:50:39+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


Another reply has been removed.

2023-07-27T09:49:35+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


no one else cares… including Dragons fans Maybe no one does care but I will tell the truth of the matter as long as I live. Ten years ago I was lucky that my lymphoma (blood cancer) impacted my bowels so I couldn't crap and went to my doctor to find out why. I had surgery that resulted in a colostomy bag attached over the stoma from which my bisected colon could eject faecal matter. The chemotherapy saved me from a slow and painful death, as my oncologist put it. There were side effects like a heart attack that interrupted the chemo and my spleen expanded and punched a hole in my stomach that nearly killed me through a dangerous loss of blood. So I had my spleen removed so now I could die if hit by a magpie or bitten by a dog. So I may not live long and probably not long enough to see the Dragons win another premiership.

2023-07-27T09:29:01+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


Why don’t you focus on the actual HISTORY of this great game, instead of this made up nonsense…

2023-07-27T09:25:45+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


So let me get this straight… Your team played in a grand final and not just lost but we’re the victims of one of the most effective, widespread, diabolical conspiracy in the history of world sport That night, you gathered your nearest and dearest together - including AFL friends - to watch a recording of the horrific event You’re so full of it… you crack me up… :laughing:

2023-07-27T09:20:25+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


You’re never going to change my mind regardless of how much “evidence” you produce I'm interested in the history of Rugby League so I'll argue with anyone who claims that Canterbury won the 1985 grand final without the help of Arthurson and Quayle's chosen referee Kevin Roberts.

2023-07-27T09:09:48+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


Kelly didn’t hit Wynn from behind. He hit him in the face. It was actually a fight Wynn started. You must've recorded a highlights package that omitted the shameful act. I watched the live recording with a group of friends later that night. My Aussie Rules friends said no wonder the game is called thugby and why mothers don't want their kids to play it. It was a cowardly punch from behind. It was something the NRL would want to leave out of the replay because it was not a godd advertisement for the game.

2023-07-27T09:04:52+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


Can you provide a link or a reference to that Spillane quote…? Craig Young said after the game that it was fine, Wynn deserved it and he’d been thinking of doing it himself for years

2023-07-27T09:03:37+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


Well renowned rugby league historian Eileen McWhirter disagrees with you… how much evidence do I need to keep providing…?

2023-07-27T08:50:49+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


You’ve been bringing this up for at least the past five years and not one person has agreed with you Debbie Spillane, a Canterbury fan, admitted it was bad but it made up for all the grand finals St.George wins. I've met a Canterbury fan who, like you, thought it didn't affect the result. I worked with a Canterbuty fan from Queensland who laughed about it. No one here would agree with you that it wasn't a cowardly act but if they did I would argue with them too. Would you punch someone from behind and not expect to be arrested?

2023-07-27T08:30:41+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


If there was a book called “110 years of rugby league finals” by Eileen McWhirter it was a work of fiction for example :- 'Wynn was later embarrassed by little man Mortimer.' Do you understand why concussed NRL players can't return to the field? Wynn was relaxed and walking from a scrum penalty when Kelly punched him from behind knocking him out. The effects of a punch from behind are much worse than when facing the assailant because the neck muscles are flexed in defence. Wynn wasn't taken off so a second punch would be more damaging so Mortimer's attack was not one of bravery.

2023-07-27T08:10:27+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


I’m not defaming him… I don’t think he exists…

2023-07-27T07:44:06+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


You can defame Steve Haddon all you like, but it won’t change the fact that Peter Kelly knocked out Graeme Wynn with a coward’s punch from behind. How could it be 100 years of NRL finals…? Steve Haddon wrote the History of NSW Rugby League Finals in 1991. In 2008 he updated it to include the NRL years with all the NSWRL years. Steve Haddon was Toowoomba born and bred. He completing studies in journalism, drama and Australian History at the University of Queensland.

2023-07-27T07:14:06+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


Here you go. NRL match report. Mentions the possible forward pass… (Hagan actually threw it). Your memory and your mate’s book are definitely wrong, it wasn’t the pass for the try Also mentions Kelly’s punch… no mention of it being a king hit https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/12/14/1985-grand-final-rewind-dogs-defy-dragons-to-win-third-in-six-years/

2023-07-27T07:09:27+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


It's amazing how Canterbury got away with these gutless acts. It was in 1988 wasn't it? The NSWRL was run by John Quayle and Ken Arthurson who was a good mate of Peter Moore. Arthurson and Moore lived through the horror years of St.George's dominance. That explains their reasons for choosing Kevin Roberts, a Souths player of the early sixties.

2023-07-27T07:07:21+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


What do you mean childhood fantasies? The reality is that the Bulldogs won the game. Reality The fantasy is your nonsense about ARL official conspiracies costing the Dragons multiple grand finals and phantom punches in the back of the head and players getting knocked out of the game - even though they played the whole game - and mysterious books by blokes no one’s ever heard of That’s all just make believe

2023-07-27T07:02:53+00:00

The Barry

Roar Guru


You don’t know what evidence means do you…? You writing down the same quote from a book I’ve never heard of by an author I’ve never heard of, that for all I know could be made up, over and over again isn’t evidence. It’s just not. I’ve watched that game regularly over the years. I watched it again recently when you started all this nonsense All your stuff is make believe. Footy was played violently then. The Dragons came out dropping forearms and swinging arms into tackles. The Dogs did the same - it’s how the game was played Kelly didn’t hit Wynn from behind. He hit him in the face. It was actually a fight Wynn started. The only time Kelly saw the back of Wynn’s head was when Wynn ran away Let this stuff go. It’s not really good for you to stew on this stuff that happened 38 years ago. You’re never going to change my mind regardless of how much “evidence” you produce and no one else cares… including Dragons fans

2023-07-27T06:48:24+00:00

Tim Buck 3

Roar Rookie


Can you produce anyone that can back up your childhood fantasies? I have on more than one occasion produced evidence from Rugby League writer Steve Haddon and all you can do is defame him by calling him a lying St.George supporter. You can't handle the truth. Neither can Michael Hagan who hasn't replied to my question.

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