All aboard Luke Wilkshire's Russian ark

Honestly both should get the stick. If you have shafted by the national side. THen you should prove the coach wrong by playing well instead of taking the easier option of playing for another country. Eddie Bosnar has refused to play for Croatia despite having Frank Farina wrecking his international careers and receiving many offers from Croatia before. I like to see him get at least one cap for that dedication and it was a shame that the japanese club didn't release him for the friendly match against Ghana where he would have definately play. Nevertheless - Dario Vidosic to me was a bigger blunder then Djite and Burns when Vidosic played well in the qualifiers and Djite and Burns flopped and would have been there due to potential only.

For every one of us who lay blame at Arnold's feet, there'll be a numpty who will write off Dario for the mere thought of swapping flags. Dario should have been there, he had the fitness and skill, what more do you want? Graciously, The Bear

There's rumours that Dario Vidosic is now trying to play for Croatia after his missed selection for the Olympics despite being the stand out players in the qualifiers. This sounds familiar - Josip Simunic refuse to play for Australia after Farina didn't pick him for the Sydney Olympics. Arnold - you stuff us again

dasilva, i hear what you are saying. It's just seems that now with Milligan, that professional generousity is very much biased. The potential in Carle, one which Tim Cahill no less, agrees with you, me and many others, will ever only be just that. Potential. Did Nick not give Arnie the propper repect, lol. Perhaps Nick maintained his integrity too much, and did not follow this goon's instructuions to the "T" after that Nigeria game (Baan's selection, no doubt). Such speculation is fanciful, but if unearthing the ole Zelic issue teaches us anything, is that it's not always about football. Much to the ire and fury of us football lovers. Graciously, The Bear

I don't like Holman and I rate Carle is better than him. However what criteria do I get that conclusion, by watcjomg Carle play and seeing he has better technique than Brett Holman but that is purely subjective. Objectively has that better technique actually translated to a more creative and effective attacking options. Holman played in the dutch league and actually performs well and scores the goals, Carle plays in English second division as a defensive midfielder as he couldn't put in the assist and the goals. In terms of performance has he done anything to prove he is better than Holman and Pim has every right to put Holman in front of Carle. I believe Carle has more potential than Holman but that potential hasn't been shown yet in actual performance. in terms of Holman missing out. Yes it was dissapointing that Holman chose not to play but he is still pretty much assured of being a impact player for the soccerroos. He is much higher in the pecking order than Carle. I was hoping Holmans overconfidence in his place in the NT bite him back but then no one perform well against China. Would that have change if Carle choose to play? My rant on Carle is based on frustration of seeing a player who I rate not fulfilling his potential and this is why I'm singled out Carle not Holman or Milligan. It is double standard as I believe Carle can reach a higher standard then both of them

Pip, is it ok to have players like Milligan acting like a lost sheep for the last 12 months, and Managers taking pity on him, and compromising NT values? It's the same sh1t, but different bucket, imo. Neither is good for the game. Graciously, The Bear

Re Zelic again - I agree Farina was clearly not blameless and did not manage the situation well - but we still can't have players dictating terms to the NT manager.

He was offered Netherlands squad? If this is true (i have yet to see a quote) then something very wrong must have happened. And dasilva, wow! let it out, amigo. If players like Holman can be fast tracked over the same period of time (due to Arnie's interim fudgings) and now said player can pick and choose his games, then double standards are creeping into our media, and supporters. Homlan surely has not proved his worth. Fink, however, is losing some objectivity, i agree. Graciously, The Bear

When your not in the side and you get an offer to play in a friendly against a team like Holland with no more games before the WCQ's and you say no .......... that says something to me ......... make your own calls but I think young NC over the years has had some very poor advise and if the rumors are true its a bit of the tennis Dad and if so that is sad as this was a very foolish call on his behalf.

Jesse Fink blamed Pim Verbeek for not selecting Nick Carleagainst China. THat turns out to be untrue. He never made a retraction of comments. SOme people may call that spreading lies and defamation.

Jimbo Maybe I was a bit harsh, I certainly don't like him getting shafted. I say the most memorable moment in the A-league for me when I was at Hindmarsh in the preliminary final watching Nicky Carle tearing Adelaide apart where Newcastle should of have a place in the grand final. I would actually say with all things even, I'm a fan of Nicky Carle and take an interest in how he is doing in England reading about his contribution to Bristol City. I'm all for him getting some time for National Team. I like him to be starting in friendly matches to see how he stands up but I don't like it when people think he can waltz to the 1st XI and when people say he is a once in a generation and our most creative player. He has never proven that. There is a good reason why he was played as a DM because he couldn't show his creative ability to his manager. I'm hoping he can show it this season but people have to realise he hasn't done anything yet. The difference is that Viduka and Kewell and Grella missing out is that they are virtually assured of a spot for the first XI if fit. Carle isn't and really it was his chance to claim a spot. His not willing to fight a spot in a team when he is already not getting game time. That's why it is so much more dissapointing then the Viduka and the Kewell. If it turns out to be marital problems and Nicky Carle gets a divorce or something like that. Then I'll apologise but you can't blame people for putting question marks on his mentality. The things is that he never mention personal reason, he just says he was tired as a reason for missing out against China. Now if he said personal problems and leave it like that then perhaps people will be more forgiving. In any case it is absolutely baffling that Jesse Fink doesn't even mention the fact that he chose not to play. Now if you want to defend him and say he has good personal reason then fine but to completely ignore the issue and just pretend it never happens just because it makes Carle look bad makes Jesse pretty negligent journalist. He has many times wrote articles questioning integrity of people with far more circumstantial evidence than this (Arnold selection was based on self interest). To not even mention this is rather disappointin and make him look very one eyed (not that he ever denied it)

oh and lets not forget that pim's favourite footballer Brett Hoffman also refused to play against China so if nicky carle is going to be banished to the international wilderness then so can a lot of other regulars.

dasilva, we'll stop sticking up for Carle when you people stop criticising him unfairly. Harry Kewell chose not to play against China, are you all for Harry Kewell getting shafted. Vince Grella chose not to play against China, are you all for Vince Grella getting shafted. And on it goes. If Carle chose not to play for Australia then he may have a good reason for not wanting to play. Maybe he's just fed up with the criticism and getting left on the bench and has given up on ever playing for his country under Pimbo.

By the way, what was the issues between Okon and Zelic. I heard that they absolutely despise each other. Is that true and what was that about? Was it just the Captaincy?

All this Nick Carle obsession is rather annoying. People in Bristol City value his tough tackling and hard work ethics for the club and decent passing and thats why they play him as defensive midfielder ala Vinnie Grella where he succeeded as the first ball out of defence. THey tried playing him as an attacking midfielder but it didn't work as he wasn't able to do a creative defence splitting pass for his team. He was sold off because they had a lot of DM in the squad. THe fact is his weakness is the ability to do defence splitting passes at the highest level. He has two assist in his ENglish career and both were in one match. THe fact is Vinnie Grella and Valeri are better DM than him and he hasn't shown the ability to be useful flair player for any non aleague team. I don't believe this rubbish that he can create a goal out of nothing and everyone just accepted that as fact when he hasn't really shown it yet. You can argue that Bristol could have perservere and give Carle more chance as an attacking midfielder but he didn't take the chances when he had it. I'm all for giving Carle a chance but I'm bemuse when people think he should walk in to the first XI. Nick Carle had a chance against CHina but blew it. The fact that he blown an opportunity to show and prove Pim Verbeek and all his doubters wrong and cement himself more game time in later match has serious lower my opinion whether he has the mentality for this level. Hope he proves me wrong as I love his work in the A-leaguebut somethings tells me he will be an underachiever for the Soccerroos. Ever since Carle chose not to play against China, I'm all for Carle geting shafted. Jesse - \Why don't you talk about Carle choosing not to play against CHina. What about the rumours where Carle chose to skip out against Netherlands and Uzbekistan? Instead you just blame it on Pim.

Tony in Canberra Ned explained his side of the story about two years ago on SBS. Goes something like this. Ned was in the middle of contract negotiations and his club said do no go. So Ned phones up crankie Frankie and say is it urgent I come this time as there is a lot of heat at this end. Frank say its urgent you must come. So Ned tells his club to get stuffed he is going to play for his country putting at risk both his contract and maybe get a rep as a difficult player with other clubs. Ned gets to Australia and Frankie for the first time says you are on the bench .......... Ned explodes I put everything on the line .......... how can I explain to club that I fly home to sit on the bench. Neds leaves and gutless former management allow the above to happen.

There were a few times when Zelic was not played or substituted early after making a great effort to come all the way to Australia. The worst (and last) case was against Brazil where they had a public slanging match on the sideline as Ned was dragged off by Farina. He captained the national team at 19 (our youngest ever) and was no mug. He was often the best player on the park when he was substituted - bizarre really. We don't know all the facts behind the rift with Farina and apparently got very nasty. I think Farina should have had more maturity and not acted so petulantly himself, so don’t put all the blame on Ned. The Socceroos management team made no effort to try and heal the rift and it was a great loss for Australia football. Carle is starting to get the same fed up look about him, maybe he has personal problems. Definite rift with Arnie and now starting with Pimbo. Another great shame for OZ football from my point of view, but seems as though there are a few who will disagree.

KB, thanks for the vote of confidence ;) by the way, re your link, is Doris the one in the middle? If so rowrrrr!

Tony, I agree whole heartedly with that perspective. Even if the kid was the next Craig Moore, how can the FFA invest so much in him, when they know his track record? LOL, they didn't even play him at CB at the Olympics? What shop window ?? The kid is going to think the NT revolves around him pretty quickly with all these "concessions" and "leg ups". And he ain't even that good. I know, i know it's all getting way off topic. In a round about way, it actually helps me respect Luke's career that little bit more. Wow, i feel better, already! Graciously, The Bear

Slippery Jim, is Nostradamus :D don't forget it Lards .. Chelsea for four trophies; it is written.... ;) ~~~~~~~ KB