Before we answer the question, we need to establish whether he will turn to what rugby league followers now think of as the dark side. And the most likely answer to this is that when his Tigers contract runs out at the end of 2009, he will take up an offer to play rugby union. Probably in Japan.
The Sydney Morning Herald has an interesting story stating that if Marshall does play rugby union in Japan he could come back to rugby league. The mechanics behind this is that the Japanese Top League rugby season runs from September to February. This timetable would allow Marshall the chance to come back to the rugby league code if, for whatever reason, he wants to do this.
But, of course, the Super 14 season (by 2011, a Super 15 or up to 18, with a Japanese team as a likely starter) also begins in February.
My feeling is that if Marshall does make the jump in codes, he will want to carry on in rugby union and achieve his ambition to become an All Black. This is the same sort of ambition that Sonny Bill Williams (remember him?) has and, most importantly, Brad Thorn had.
Australians don’t generally understand the mystique that the All Blacks jersey has for New Zealanders. It is one of the most powerful emotions New Zealand males can have. Moreover, the All Blacks jersey marks a person out, identifies them as having achieved something wonderful, for the rest of their life.
You can see this in the business world, even in Australia.
Whenever there is talk, say, of David Kirk, he is invariably referred to as “the former All Blacks captain.” Is Michael Hawker, another former rugby player who has had a successful business career, invariably referred to as “the former Wallaby great?”
Hardly.
So if Marshall does make the jump, does he have the skills and the ticker to fulfill his ambition and become an All Black?
All this is hypothetical, of course, but right now you’d say this ambition can be realised. He has a background in rugby, which should be a help (but wasn’t much of a help for Mat Rogers).
He has the skill set and the ticker to make the transition to the rugby union code. He showed both the skills and the ticker in the Rugby League World Cup Final against the Kangaroos. It was when Marshall took on the line and exposed his battered shoulders to the ferocious intent of the Paul Gallens and the other big hitters that the Kiwis fractured the Kangaroos line and set up tries.
My guess is that his best position in rugby union would either at fullback or on the wing, as a Shane Williams type of runner coming into the line after some phases and bewildering the big forwards trying to block up the middle of the field.
I can’t see him being a successful union five-eights.
We’ve seen Rogers fail in this position and on Saturday, playing for Stade Francaise against the rampant Harlequins, we saw Mark Gasnier, admittedly coming on as a reserve, making an awful hash of the five-eights and then centres position.
Gasnier’s problem, and it is a problem that most rugby league players coming to rugby union face, is that his skill level in handling and passing was not up to the lack of space and time rugby union players have to confront when they get the ball.
Also, his kicking skills, based on quick, accurate readings of the situations in front of him, are non-existent.
When you contrast Gasnier, seemingly leaden-footed and leaden-minded (a bit like Fracnois Steyne in the Barbarians-Wallaby game), with Nick Evans masterminding the Harlequins around the field and putting them in the situation where they were able to snatch an unlikely victory, you realise the great difference between the two codes.
Great players in one code will not necessarily be great players in the other code.
In fact, what we have seen in Australia and New Zealand, and especially since the ELVs, is that the old adage that backs can make the switch from either code more easily than forwards no longer applies.
Lote Tuqiri has made a ‘successful’ switch, but in my opinion on impact around the field, he is behind Peter Hynes, Digby Ione and probably Lachlan Turner. Like George Gregan in his later years, Tuqiri’s main value to the side is pyschological.
He is a reassuring figure to the younger players who may be inspired just by his presence to lift their own game.
The two best switchers from league to union in these parts in recent years have been Brad Thorn, who has become the rock of the All Blacks pack, and Rocky Elsom, whose ferocious tackling and running and general aggro in his play was missed by the Wallabies, especially in the Bledisloe Test in Hong Kong and the Test against Wales.
If this analysis is correct, rugby clubs in Europe and Japan, the ARU and the NZRU might look more favorably on players like Frank Pritchard (my pick for a successful conversion to the other side) and other tough league forwards rather than to the backs like Marshall and, certainly, Gasnier.
martin copelin
Guest
Benji should forget about going to RU at the top level. He would have less room to move would find himself crowded and frustrated. He is a brilliant attacking player who has now come to grips with the fact Scot Prince has moved on and ajusted his game accordingly. People actually want to watch him play and he undoubtedly contributes to the record breaking TV ratings. In Australia RL finals and state of origin games outrate anything the AFL has including the grand final. Many super 14 games have TV audiences of ten men and a couple of dogs and the number of tests lost by the Wallabies show a huge decline in interest by the public. As far as club rugby is concerned you do not get much interest there. In so far as playing Rugby in France you would never know when you would be either sacked or not paid. Benji would be a natural for the British Super League where the game flows better than the NRL and is not as brutal in defence. It is a great game/product.
Ed
Guest
Benji needs to look after himself because the NRL HQ have prevented him from earning more dollars. People say where is his loyalty to the code. His many years of entertaining fans is his loyalty. Where is the NRLs loyalty to stars like Benji, SBW, Gasnier and co. If playing in an inferior game or rugby league comp (UK Superleague) is the only way that players can earn their true potential then I say go for it. Look at why the player is going and who is responsible for those reasons.
Jaredsbro
Roar Guru
Currently his motivation could only really be money so I don't think the ABs are a serious option...however he has achieved all there is to achieve in Rugby League (minus State of Origin) however given certain arcane Representative Laws that aint gonna happen so he has nowhere to go but to jump ship. The reality is New Zealand and New Zealanders can't afford to play just one code, Aussies can get away with it, but there probably isn't enough pride (from New Zealanders in general in Rugby League) for stars like Marshall to play just one code...people only remember the ABs as a general rule
Tarpo
Guest
Steffy, We finally agree on something, good point, let the boys learn the game in the lower grades first.
oikee
Guest
Well said crosscoder, now can we please just let the guy play league, like i said why waste such a talent for money. I dont enjoy seeing Tuquiri or Dell playing Union, they look cumbersom and out of place, and Brad Thorn looks like he is taking a hitup every time he has the ball. Its not Union they are playing, its league with Union coaches. Un-natural.
Crosscoder
Guest
I am always bemused by those of either rugby code,commenting on who would or would not make the best transition. The simple fact is many players in union and league played both as a junior. In NZ as Spiro would or should testify many of the current and past ABs cam from a league background Nonu,Umaga,Lomu,Kirwan,Collins etc. In Australia Walker,the Ellas,Fairfax,Brass,Hawthorne,Gourley,Giteau, D Campese,Henjack,Beale. In France the cream of the french rl were poached during the supposed post was "shamateur" years,and I understand the likes of Sella had a league background. The point I am getting to is the common thread is they are backs in the main,and in many instances the reason they are or have played union ,is due simply to their respective schools offering only one code(union) as a sport,and it followed from there the representative transition or in the case of the French simply cherry picked by the wallets. In a round about way it gets to the argument that a player like Benji M. would make it in union,however I believe he would be wasted because of the congested nature and tightness of union .His touch football background shows he likes the wide open free flowing status of a sport,and having a more open for attack sport like league ,he IMO is better suited there.
jam
Guest
good line Nick
Westy
Guest
Thanks Nick. I am glad someone does. All the best for Xmas.
Nick (KIA)
Guest
And Westy, I miss the ..................'s... :)
Nick (KIA)
Guest
"as for Dell, he was a rock for the Reds in 2003 and 2004." Must have been weighing them down, they finished 8th and 10th out of 12 teams...
Who Needs Melon
Guest
Back to the question: Can Benji make it in Union? The answer: I'd give him about a 10% chance. It's possible he could stay fit and enjoy the game in Japan enough to want to continue in it. If he does, there's a chance he could get picked up by a Super 14 side. Then you could probably say he'd "made it". Would he ever make it into the All Blacks? Given the level of talent in front of him and likely to be coming through, I'd be rating his chances well below 1%.
Bonaza
Guest
For those of you that did not watch the Stade Francais - Harlequins closely you would have obseved that Gasnier went on the field on the left wing to replace an injured winger while play had commenced. At the next break in play he went to the right wing where he has played most of his five games of rugby and has scored two tries. He was then moved later to inside centre when Hernandez went to fullback. Brian Liebenberg actually played at 5/8 for the remainder of the game. If you thought he played at 10 then it was because there was one midfield ruck with the backs split and 9 passed him the ball and the other occasion he was in position to chase a Hernandez kick and was passed the ball along with 3 defenders. A quick check of the team sheets would see that Gasnier has already started a game against Castre at 12 otherwise has played on the right wing presumably because he played right side centre in league and it might be a more familiar introduction. However,dont let the facts get in the way of a good story or perhaps watch the game again - He never played at 10 in the matchl Ps Stade Francais has scored the most points in the French Championship this season so McKenzie must have some idea about attack
Steffy
Guest
Stephen Myler and Chris Ashton at Northampton both came from rugby but were able to learn union in National Divisison 1 last season when Northampton were relegated - if I recall correctly Ashton broke the try scoring record for that division. Where union goes wrong I believe is that they take players from rugby and put them into the first team too soon in a sink or swim situation, Union woulld be far better advised to let the ex rugby players learn the game in the reserves or on loan to a lower division side for a while before making their first gade debut.
The Answer
Guest
Very interesting how many Union fans are quick to sledge all the League purchases but without drawing breath then rattle off their new wishlist....
Al
Guest
Westy, it has to be Slater for mine. He would be an absolute sensation for the W's. He has always been freakishly talented however this year he has become the complete player with the addition of sublime playmaking skills from full-back. Dingo loves his ball-playing fullbacks too.
Westy
Guest
As a long time observer of both games I have been surprised by some of the league players Australian rugby has bought . It is fundamental that everyone understand Rodgers. Tahu and gasnier were poor to very poor league defenders with poor reads. As someone who watched numerous St George games Gasnier defended on the wing. He is and was a poor defender in league. Anderson, Bennett and Lang refused to play Rodgers anywhere but the wing because of his poor front on defence ( by the way his stint in the Wallabies did much to improve his defence) and Tahu only ever played for Newcastle and NSW on the wing due to his poor defensive read. Gidley made Tahu both in attack and defence at Newcastle. Rugby no longer needs league players for a headline. What Australian rugby needs to do is properly appraise where it is light on and if any league players may fit that specific bill. To me at the moment there is one position and that is fullback. Slater, Hunt and Stewart may have something to offer. The only other possibility is Prince or Thuston and in the centres League best defensive pair who can actually read a defence is St. George's Cooper and Brisbane's Hodges . They are also very capable in attack. In every game I saw Hodges play Cross, Hodges dominated. My league team is Wests tigers. Benji is a very poor league defender . This will not change in rugby.He is also injury prone. I cannot believe my rugby compatriots at times . Prince made Benji. Prince left and Benji has never been there again. League is not the reservoir some in rugby think it is a different game but never ignore jewels like Inglis or Folau or players targeted to specific need. But be very careful in purchasing wellknown league players who were never good defenders in their own game.
Jimmy C
Guest
Here's a couple of converts - Jason Robinson and Tana Umaga. Not many world XVs they wouldn't be part of....
Billo
Guest
At a time when young players can play both codes before deciding which one is for them, it seems silly to debate whether a player like Andrew Walker is principally a league or rugby player. I agree that he was a fabulous player, whichever code he played.
sledgeandhammer
Guest
Andrew Walker was playing first grade for Randwick as a 17 year old before he had a couple of kids and switched to league for the money. Not sure if he had a league background before this - so are we claiming he was a great rugby convert or league convert?
Billo
Guest
When you put the prejudice aside, we have to admit that there have been some absolutely outstanding league players switching to rugby since the game went professional. They have brought a hell of a lot to the game, in both hemispheres. Spiro mentions Mat Rogers, who had some fine games at fly half and centre for the Wallabies, although he lacked the creative spark to play anywhere other than the wing in his days for Cronulla. I too saw the Stade game against Harlequins last weekend. It was funny to see Stephen Jones giving Gasnier a spray in the Sunday Times, because a few weeks earlier Jones had described Hernandez as one of the greatest talents ever at fly half, and yet he was so limited that Mackenzie moved him to fullback and replaced him with Gasnier. It must have been the first time Gasnier had played in that position, and he acquitted himself very well in the circumstances. As for Benji, I see him as a league player, pure and simple, although you never know. The kid has tremendous courage and beautiful skills, so we can't put anything past him. In England, where I'm based these days, there's a young kid called Stephen Myler playing at fly half for Northampton who is edging the great Carlos Spencer out of the team. Myler is a league boy who couldn't force his way into the Salford league team when they weren't even in Super League, yet he is a brilliant rugby player for the Saints, and he could play for England down the track. It's horses for courses.