Rugby, why do you persecute your fans?

Australians are used to league where the whole focus is simplification and tries and then they bring this expectation to Rugby. It is a different game with a different focus, and Australia is the only country where these complaints crop up. Eg after France 07, the press here declared it a farce, and the rest of the world declared it the best world cup ever. Please get over it, it is not league, it is a different game with a different focus.

Well that's the problem Sledgeross. I was at the Wales v England game and there was 50 year old men spitting and roaring when the England team ran out. I'm the first to admit how bad my culture is and I don't think it's necessary. It's a proud sport we have.

Ahhh, it all becomes clear now Knives, its not like the Welsh to bear a grudge ;) I have to admit the Taffys are my fave international rugby team to watch, so well done! And the links course at Aberdovey is diabolical! Have a good one mate.

why all this endless fascination with running rugby? after all, classical running rugby is still only a poor imitation of rugby league. here's some free advice to the disgruntled rugby-types above: swallow some pride, come on over and feel the difference.

Enjoy the rugby this weekend Sledgeross.

Actually Sledgeross, I'm not a pom however I do have a sense of dignity, and it's embarassing to see people still pedal this anti-Pom agenda. All it does is reveal a very narrow, small nation mentality and coming from a small nation, as I do (Wales), I can see nothing more pointless. There is nothing wrong with nostalgia, the rugby didn't seem slow then, but in comparison it is. Slow and stodgy, and that is coming from a fan of the great 70s teams, even the 1974 Lions team. And the suggestion that you and Gruffalo watch league, that was a solution. The problem apparently being contemporary rugby union. The fact of the matter is that back play is no less skillful or effective than years ago and a pointless rant won't prove otherwise.

I am not so down on the rugby being played at the moment, I think there's been some good positive play. The issue rugby faces is that it has a plethora of pedantic laws which can be infringed upon, many of which have no bearing on the state of play. I think the laws should concentrate on infringements which have an actual impact on the play. This common sense approach would cut out a lot of the stoppages.

Seldge, and it has, hence the ELV's but it is, no matter how hard you train, a very difficult game to get right for more than 30-40 minutes at a time. for me, the best sustained rugby I have seen was the Wallabies against the AB's in the 1991 RWC semi final in the first half. They couldnt keep it up for the second half but still won.

Good points Lefty. I suppose also if we look at the support staff and the fact that these blokes are training most days of the year means the skill sets (especially defensively) are far superior than past times, which means defence will come to the fore.

Geez, where do I start? Usually with a specific comment to each post. Not today. Rugby is virtually impossible to play pefectly. the kick is part of rugby. it is very hard to execute but is very effective if it gets the required kick chase or targets a weakness. Teams are evolving. they will continue to evolve. In terms of space between backlines, they have 20 metres at line out time and 10 a scrum time. A kick return has 50 metres between attackers and an invariably misformed and poorly aligned defensive line. Rather than go through it, the attacker often spots a gap and chips into space. All good options. Personally, I would like to see the attacking team support the ball carrier and attack off the kick return, not everytime. Just mix it up. I believe that mixing it up will become the next big thing in playing tactics. But, it requires vision, flxibility and speed of thought.

Thats a big chip to be carrying around "Knives Out". What can we say? You appear to be a paranoid, rugby-loving Pom, so good luck to you. Its great that you have a passion for sport. Ok, Gruffalo doesnt provide any solutions, but he does make a pertinent point as regards the state of the game. You are right, the rugby from the "glory days" of amatuerism was visually appealling, but there is nothing wrong with reminiscing about the way things used to be, especially if you thought it was more appealling. If you actually cared to read what I wrote, I dont bag the Poms style, nor their achievements. In fact, I even pointed out why top class rugby has become so cynical. I didnt say it was a bad thing, only pointed out I didnt enjoy it as much. Im not saying it is inferior to any other sport. I suggest you put the toys back in the pram. I dont think Im a "dinosaur" and I certainly dont think the Wallabies play "expansive, beautiful rugby", far from it (in fact I even said I dont enjoy watching Test matches as much). My "intellectual well" may not be too deep, but Im happy that Im not a paranoid belligerent. I find it amusing that you say "What is the point is moaning and taking pointless pot-shots if nobody, i.e. the author, is to offer a solution let alone a question" only to write a few posts later "I suggest Sledgeross and Gruffalo watch another sport. Perhaps league." Mmmmmmm, very deep intellectually, and not a pointless potshot at all is it mate ;) Enjoy your rugby!

So good that you lost to Wales. England holding sway with the IRB is delusional at best if it were the case the ELV's would not have made it past the initial discussion.

Without starting a new discussion I'm not sure I agree with you there Pothale. I think NZ is a long way ahead of the other test nations but SA or the Wallabies aren't. I think SA has great potential but I don't have much faith in the current Wallabies team. We're basically 3 years away from the next WC and I think the Europea nnations have a much larger scope for improvement, which is worrying.

But SH rugby is superior rugby, KO. It's only a question of by how much is at the heart of the discussion on ELVs. :)

The off-side phenomenon also seems to be occurring in the 6N games that I'v caught, Westy. To all, a technical reason as to why backs shouldn't stand further apart than they already do - the ball carrier will inevitably become isolated if a break is made. Equally, does anybody seriously think that the backs standing further apart will have any effect upon backrow men such as McCaw or Smith? I think not. Also, another point is that it is inherently wrong to suggest that rugby must be made a running game, as if for the good of the people. I'm a long-time sevens player but such a suggestion is completely at odds with the genesis of rugby and implies an unspoken superiority for one type of rugby, when our sport has been based on variety. I suggest Sledgeross and Gruffalo watch another sport. Perhaps league.

In the two super 14 games I have seen so far the referees have been peculiarly hesitant to enforce the offside. Sadly this may involve some ruthlessness. Memories of a certain NRL referees 20 penalties against Parramatta in ahalf to stop their off side play come flooding back. The point is there has been a peculiar hesitancy in enforcement of illegal offside play when space is at apremium. I chuckle at the intense scrutiny of the referee at the scrummage to clearly see players off side allowed to choke of play.it is worse at the breakdown. Is it possible to have second referee for offside? Not even flatline attack can overcome crude off side play that is allowed to flourish. I and everyone knows the first referee to enforce it will blow 20 or more penalties in a half and be dropped from the merit list.

Watch a test from the 90s Gatesy and then consider how close together the players are. There was never a period when backs stood 20 metres apart spinning the ball gloriously through each pair of hands. In hindsight, the rugby from the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s is visually appalling. What is the point is moaning and taking pointless pot-shots if nobody, i.e. the author, is to offer a solution let alone a question.

I'm not quite so pessimistic about the article. I don't think that the ELV's by themselves will suddenly open up the game and make it more attractive. I think Gruffalo is correct when he says that the backlines should be forced further apart. I don't know how you do it - maybe you force everyone but the halfback to stand a certain distance back from the gate. If anything, the ELV's are responsible for the increase in aimless kicking that is currently going on. When you have a combination of defensive teams standing right up in your face like the Crusaders did on Saturday night against the Brumbies (probably right on the limits of the law - and that was without McCaw), combined with hands in the ruck you have the attacking and defending lines very close together, champing at the bits, like fighting dogs - and therefore it becomes harder to find a way through the middle or the outside, so the only solution is to go over the top. Yet every time that a team is patient enough to play the phases, it almost always produces attractive results. We need to find a way to get the Rugby flowing and the backs having a bit of room to run and put on their set piece moves, with out the amount of aimless kicking that is currently blighting the game as a spectacle.

You're right Sledgeross. It's a great article, it complains about NOTHING in particular and then presents NO SOLUTIONS whatsoever. Not only is it wildly innacurate ,but it is also shallow and generally bizarre. In short it's fantastic. Good for you if you like this sort of stuff. England are rubbish and they run the entire rugby world, that must be why SA changed their vocal anti-ELV stance after meeting with John O'Neill. England does hate running rugby and yet they have the temerity to develop an excellent domestic league. It must really have hurt dinsoaurs like you and the genius Gruffalo to see the Wallabies playing such expansive beautiful rugby recently. How deep the intellectual well is in your part of the woods brother.

fair comment sledgeross.