If it's okay for Verbeek, it's okay for all

The Bear, no, I think you've hit the nail on the head! If he's saying things like that about the A-League, what is he telling the rest of the world about the rest of us? Sam, I think we can thank a fair share of luck for being top of the group and in a good position. I don’t give Pimbo and Wags the Dog much credit. We should’ve lost to Bahrain and Japan, which means we would be third in the group four points behind Japan and Bahrain and having to win 3 out of the last 4 to get into the top two. How would Pimbo cope with that with his 5-5-0 formation?

Sam, you have hit the nail on the head. Yay, for us, shedding light on this PimMyth.

Jimbo/The Bear Question Pim on his negative tactics and he is just as sensitive as us. He has fired up a few times about this. I still question his ability to get players to play under his instructions. To me Australia under him has been a liittle disjointed, and relied on star players.

Jesse...it's all politics right? Pim is the big man on campus, FFA is full of football numpties. Of course he is going to get away with his awkward comments. Farina's comments can be seen as aggressive ... however, Pim's are charming. Go figure! I agree with jimbo on this one, Pim's honesty extends to his tenure. I'd like to know what he *really* thinks of our Country and it's Football. My bet is far less than most of us think.

md, I think Pimbo was being sarcastic and insulting. Do you honestly belive his comments weren't derogatory to the A-League?

Pippu, was it a rabona attempt gone awry? Actually, considering that Carle was only just back in the game after a one match ban for accumulating too many yellow cards, perhaps he is gaining a reputation in the lower levels of English football less for silky skills and more for crude tackles...

very well said md. We should not confuse consistency with a licence to insult and disparage.

I think Phillip Micallef said exactly the same thing that Jesse has said here, in less inflamatory language on Friday didn't he? By and large, I agree with the sentiment of the articles, and speech should be freer in the A-league. In particular, fining Vidmar was a disgrace. To go to specifics though, there have to be some areas where free speech is overridden by the needs of the game and there are instances of thinly veiled double talk, which is rightly punishable. For example, there is a difference between saying that the standard of refereeing in the A-league needs improvement, and blaming a particular referee for a loss or a particular incident. Often times, the former is used as a thinly veiled pretext for alleging the later. When that is the case, then the FFA is right to crack down. It's all in the context. If Farina (for example) gave a non-match specific speech (say a speech in a football development context, or as part of general comment on a TV panel show, or even in response to a journo during a doorstop presser) in which he recommended or urged an improvement in the standard of ref'ing in the A-league, the FFA wouldn't give a hoot. But, if he sits there in a post match conference, where it is clear that he is referring to a specific incident or a specific referee that he is dirty about, then even the thickest viewer knows that when he says that "the standard of ref'ing needs improvement", he is having a swipe at the particular referee of that match, and the FFA is right to crack down. There is an overriding policy from FIFA down, to protect ref's from that sort of specific criticism and given that they are not really in a position to defend themselves publicly. There is a forum and a process for complaint and redress in the A-league, and it is not the media. Sometimes, the media get dirty about that, but any journo even remotely involved in football should know a lot better. The purpose of the policy is to protect ref's - not because they should be immune from criticism, but because they should be immune from victimisation and public humiliation through the mass media by coaches, officials and players, who are generally afforded a higher media profile than the ref's are. If they are not so immune, then we will pretty soon going to run out of people who are willing to be refs, because public humiliation isn't fun, unless reality TV contestants are involved. On the other hand, I'm not sure that Pim was all that inflamatory. He made some comments about players that he coaches - that is what managers do. He didn't denigrate anyone. On one view, the fact that Pim can sum up all of the improvements he would make to the A-league within an hour, shows that he has a reasonable view of it (and a well ordered mind). I suspect my comments on improving the A-league would fill half a day, and I am just a mug-punter. It's all in the context. Cheers md

Ben Astute post and analysis.

I often feel that by making these comments Pim is taking pressure off the A-League and managing the expectation of the Australian public; no mean feat. By managing expectations people are not as concerned when a Socceroo side featuring domestic players does not perform to the same standard as the full side, and he also puts their results into perspective so we are happier when we managed away draws or, as we hope against Kuwait, tight wins. This isn't a message for the football-centric part of our population (such as those on this forum) who understand this, but to those of the wider Australian public who go to Socceroo games and watch it on TV however are less cognizant of the differences between the quality of those playing A-League and those playing at international clubs where the players stocks and facilities (and budgets) dwarf those of the A-League sides. Jimbo, training in the top European leagues can be more intense as they have the budgets that enable them to better monitor player's health and have superior facilities for recovery as well as to provide a greater variety in training. A-League clubs would train their players harder if they had these same facilities, as well as the larger squads which allow for resting players who pick up injuries whilst training. It is no-ones fault (especially given a number of the training & recovery techniques, facilities and personnel come from Australia anyway via codes such as the AFL), just a matter of money. Let's just hope that Mullen gets to partner Jameison at the back. It would be good to see some development come out of this game along with results.

Jesse, agree Pimbo gets special treatment and can say what he pleases while players, coaches etc will get fined. What Pimbo says causes more harm and brings the game more into disrepute than disagreeing with a refereeing decision. He is actually denigrating the FFA’s product, causing loss of prestige and loss of revenue in the long run. Blunt and Honest? Blunt yes, but honest - no. He just makes it up as he goes along to justify his selections and couldn’t give a shite about anyone but himself. Hernandez has played in the A-League for 2 years and still gets international call ups. Ogenovski plays in the A-League and is good enough to get selected for the Macedonian team. Let’s look at some of Pimbo’s “truths”. Play in the A-League and your international career is over – crap! Ogenovski is too old to play for the Socceroos – crap! Half his favourite team is older than the big O. Training in the A-League is not as intense as the European Leagues – crap! Where is a shred of evidence to support this. Pimbo has double standards himself – it’s OK for MacDonald to pick and choose whether he plays for Celtic or the Socceroos but not Nick Carle. I could go on and on with other examples. Yes, he’s rude and he’s blunt and yes he is getting results, but Honest and someone to be trusted?

Football - I was going to mention Melb and H-S vs Age, but thought better of it. IN reality, the SMH vs DT should hold, because, all the demographic stats shows NSW and Sydney to be the national heartland of soccer (on a same state dominant proportion vs national as applies for NSW with RL and RU too). So, if the soccer paper in Sydney is not eroding the circulation of the non-soccer paper sufficiently to force a amendment to sports editorial policy - - then perhaps that says something. (or, perhaps the critical point is not yet attained). I still reckon though, half the problem for soccer in the papers is the vast array of competitions, around the world, and clubs etc. For every 10 soccer fans, you might find the greatest constant is 'Europe', but even then, that will be broken down b/w spain, italy, england, scotland, germany, france etc. For bang for their buck, the DT is far best served by sticking to the 'big 3 or 4' NRL sides, just as in Melb the H-S can rarely go wrong with stories on Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and Richmond (not necessarily in that order, as Ben Cousins now pushes Richmond up that pecking order as appropriate!!!). btw - AFL hasn't really commenced either, but, it's the anticipation. Sailing into the unknown. AND, very importantly - I know especially in the AFL world - the 'dreamteams' are HUUUUGGGE. And everybody is busy at work looking for their bargain buys.

***STOP PRESS****STOP PRESS*****STOP PRESS*****STOP PRESS****STOP PRESS***** URGENT***** URGENT****URGENT *****URGENT *****URGENT *****URGENT******URGENT http://euroos.blogspot.com/2009/02/aussie-young-gun-goes-tartan.html This is one of those pro active times Pim should call him now and say you are in the next Socceroo team and play him in the last 5 min's if the match is tight.... this kid has been making waves for a while IMO should have been called to Japan to the train on squad some are saying he is as good as KOOL ..... even better than Troisi Aussie Young Gun Goes Tartan? Promising Newcastle United teenager Bradden Inman could be the latest Australian youngster lost to the Socceroos after receiving a call-up to Scotland's under-19 squad. Adelaide-born Inman, who is still only 17, has progressed rapidly this season at St James' Park and as a result he has attracted the attention of the Scottish national team. Inman started the season playing with Newcastle's academy side but the youngster, who is nicknamed 'Kaka' at St James' Park, has impressed so much he has been promoted to the club's first team and was amongst the substitutes for the Magpies recent English Premier League match at Manchester City in late January. Nonetheless, despite being born in Australia, the teenager who joined Newcastle at under-15 level, is eligible to play for Scotland because his mother was born there. And thus Scotland's under-19's boss Archie Gemmill has selected Inman to be part of the team which will face France in Wednesday's International Challenge Match in Clairefontaine. Australian fans though shouldn't despair the loss of a young talent just yet, because FIFA regulations state that a player is only committed to representing a country once they have represented that nation at under-21 level.

***STOP PRESS****STOP PRESS*****STOP PRESS*****STOP PRESS****STOP PRESS***** I've just learned that Carle got a straight red card overnight for a two footed lunge at around the 76th minute (in his side's nil-all draw). Maybe he is developing a bit of mongrel in him afterall?!

I guess what it shows in this country apart from cricket(yearly comps only) is that no sport commands national attention like the FA cup does in England regardless of teams involved. The position for sports outside cricket remains as per the status quo of how it has always been reported traditionally. When I first came here reporting of VFL in NSW & vice versa RL in VIC was non existent for obvious reasons . So even when these 2 sports expanded beyond their traditional city boundaries, It was only if a team from either Sydney (Swans) or Melbourne(Storm) was involved that the media upped the ante on coverage. FIrst hand, I know living in Qld also that despite The Lions winning 3 premierships their coverage like the Roars is limited. Maybe a bit better,but limited. The Broncos sneeze & its front page in the Courier Mail .Why? because RL is traditionally QLD's sport & the paper gives its majority traditional audience of a few generations what it expects & has followed. As the A-League is only 4 years old, its national footprint(unlike the Socceroos) is small even though like cricket it is emerging from a national base rather than a state base as per the sports mentioned. Having said that Footballs national base only exists in reality through post war migration to every state. As the A-League improves,the key is persuading this large demographic to switch allegiances,much in the same way as I did origonally to the Socceroos & now the Roar. Only then will the rest of the fringe supporters follow & the National footprint of the A-League be big enough to turn media heads in other states. Even then in Sydney(& this is why I keep mentioning the importance of SFC to the A-League & its future) SFC has been a dud so far. The implications of this in Australias biggest & most powerful media market are immense. Football fans cannot winge about media coverage in Sydney of an Interstate A-League final involving 2 teams from elsewhere unless SFC gets its act together & impresses the media. I put it in this order of importance:- 1 Sydney FC & West Sydney( but not until SFC is well estabilished) are succesful on & off the park. That means that the club will have captured the attention of all football fans(or as close as possible in an International cosmopolitian city) &the media will have no choice but to give them air or print time. 2 The standard of the A-League keeps improving(& it will the will & programs are in place as noted by the International coaching conference recently. Just one of many programs in place to secure footballs future including an improving ACL) PIm or any overseas person is right to criticise, to help improve the football playing standard & also football knowledge(what makes the game really tick) Therefore hes right not to worry about the sensitivities of a few of the A-League clubs hierachy. The reality is that regardless of who is brought in its a false dawn to proclaim that the A-League has arrived on the back of Robbie Fowler or Jason Culina. I've watched 40 years of football here fanny around. Sure its been criticised & from my perspective unfairly so & from an uninformed, ignorant perspective at times,but hardly ever from the angle of what can be done to improve the standard of play,the ingredient lacking so far & needed for football to enter the national sporting psyche. This is now being done,we should welcome the criticism with open arms.

Michael C The comment you made re: the SMH v Daily telegraph is absurd. Look at the circulation prior to the A League even beginning before you draw your conclusions. Remember the RL has not even commenced so there are no real stories, as for Pim the ploy he is using have been used by European coaches for years but we dont seem to realise that we are playing into his hands. If his comments about the A league were genuine he would have brought back the non playing Europeans for the Asia Qualifying games.

keeper11 there's one socceroos squad, the HAL is over for NSW sides, whereas the NRL is grown from the NSWRL and is still dominated by NSW and Sydney sides. The NRL is all over NSW FTA, unlike the soccer. The NRL undoubtedly sells papers. The soccer - well, the test case is the circulation of the SMH vs DT. I ask you - -why should it be anything but??? What coverage does the Daily Telegraph give 5 days out from an AFL Grand FInal not involving the Swans but still expected to draw 100,000K to the MCG?? Answer - stuff all. Why should a 50K crowd for a Vic vs Ade side in Melbourne for the soccer be any different?? That's Sydney for you. True though - sydney is ideally the spiritual home of soccer in Australia, so you'd expect a little more. Perhaps though - at that level - it's a fair indication, just look at the SFC attendances. Where as Pim........he's a gem, ain't he. He provides cross media 'fodder' for whatever angle journo's wish to take. How did he describe Archie Thompson and Danny Allsopp? 'hopeless'????

Pim is entitled to his opinion like everyone else. However, HAL is a young league and need some nurturing as opposed to careless comments being air all over the place. I'm afraid Pim has a big bad mouth sometimes he can't control or perhaps it's his deliberate strategy to divert attention away from his dour football tactics.

Yeah, at some point we need to grow up enough to be able to take constructive criticism.

good piece...but you lost me and any credibility when you chose to quote a news-limited tabloid journo's opinion piece on football....to make some point.... " On the weekend just gone Daily Telegraph sports editor Paul Crawley, ...." This is the same joke of 'media' outlet that a month out of the NRL season has league already front/back poage and 4-6 pages inside... 5 days out from A-league GF and expected 50,000 crowd.. 1 paragraph under 'Sports Brief'.....