How two drubbings could change Australian football

Eamonn Well said ..." A lot of garbage is written about how tactically and technically inept we are…results/performances from Sydney FC/Gamba…yes they somehow drew twice….pure fluke I guess, Adelaide getting to the final..tactical fluke, and Jets winning through against Chinese and K-League sides. Agreed we have many problems with playing style but the length of the season, the newness of the professional era and the lack of club resources and a salary cap may also have a wee bit of influence.""" I would also add that the media or some in appear not to be able to talk about a Champions League final and not devote over half the comment how superior the tactical Spaniards where over the Guss English side .... what was that the players / coaches need to improve .. cough cough clear throat cough .. so do some of footballs agenda driven zealots or just 'sour bitter souls".. who lost out to Fox when they could have had the rights for 10 million .. but said 10 million was to much even through they pay more than that for the Toure De France.

A bit narrow Davidde to suggest we're tactically naive based on a two legged result in the ACL Final. What does that say about all the other teams we beat on the way to the final...they were more tactically naive than an Australian side...how can this be! And that the Mariners lost 5-0 was clearly a tactical error laid out by Mckinna, that they could give a much improved performance just a week later days more about the so-called tactical genius' from Japan..... And listen to Jade North this week talking how the A-League players and coaches are much more tactically aware than K-League sides. A lot of garbage is written about how tactically and technically inept we are...results/performances from Sydney FC/Gamba...yes they somehow drew twice....pure fluke I guess, Adelaide getting to the final..tactical fluke, and Jets winning through against Chinese and K-League sides. Agreed we have many problems with playing style but the length of the season, the newness of the professional era and the lack of club resources and a salary cap may also have a wee bit of influence. My glass is half full. Go the Jets. A team that has Ben Kantarovski, Brodie Mooy, KazPatafta, Adam D'Apuzzo, Sean Rooney, Jason Hoffman Nikolai Topor-Stanley, Ben Kennedy, Tarik Elrich and co contributing to the Jets run in Asia is possibly an Aussie sports story of the year. The age of these players, the experience they have....yet somehow the tactical numpties from Australia finished second...can't be right...we're tactically and technically inferior aren't we?

Towser, how's the weather up there? Anywhere near the floods. Miserable and wet here in Sydney this weekend - all the local games have been washed out.

Ben I think those two results you refer to did open some people's minds a little bit. Sydney FC under Branko Culina attempted to recruit Erol Iba and Melbourne signed Ney Fabiano. Small steps obviously but this will be a gradual process. Though I would say that I think we've been a little too slow. Jimbo I agree. Just as a game involving two tactically astute teams can be entertaining, the same can be true for the opposite. That however is no reason not to develop. I have to admit a little part of me hopes that Lavicka might be the man we're looking for. I think we'll all be closely watching how Sydney goes this season.

Jimbo Agree re Ben Buckley.

Start washing your mouths out boys - SFC is going to have its best year ever and will retain the GTS and the Golden Boot to boot. Sydney isn't the only market that needs attention and the FFA are working on it. SFC and its players are making an effort this season. The new billionaire owner wants results or else. The team are playing a lot of local trial games and appearances at local events to engage with the local community. The FFA and Archie Fraser are also working on a number of new initiatives to boost the game and a lot of promotions. There will be a much bigger and better focus on promoting the game and marketing - leading into this season following the World Cup qualification (cross fingers) and next season when the Socceroos make another big international appearance. But lets not get hung up too much about crowds, the FFA is working very well in a number of areas and the game is in very good hands. I'm finally starting to think that Ben Buckley has taken control and is not just Lowy's apprentice any more and is doing a good job.

Captain Random,this is my hope also. As much as for a Roar fan it is a "washing my mouth out with soap" statement in my mind Australias biggest Football market Sydney is the key to its long term success. There is no way that the A-League in its own right(without the prop of the Socceroos) will acheive maximum TV sponsorship money unless Sydney gets its A-League act together.

"The truth is that a coach of an A-League club will clue in to this eventually." When I was watching the Australia-Kuwait game I thought that if Viteslav Lavicka (sp?) was watching then he would have picked up some great ideas on how to deal with A-League opposition. While I abhor the thought of Sydney FC having any success, if it lead to faster development of the entire league then I wouldn't mind ... too much.

I certainly think playing tactically better teams helps teams and managers to learn and grow. AU certainly put up a better showing in the World Club Championship than the ACL final and The Mariners improved in their next away game. MV should put in a better performance in the ACL after their experiences of last season and should progress to the knock out stages That doesn’t mean tactically inept teams can’t play entertaining football. Like MVDave, I love a good open game where creative players get plenty of room and plenty of scoring chances. That’s why some A-League games have been a lot more exciting for me than a lot of European elitist tactical chess games. Pimbo's tactics might be appropriate for getting the points you need to qualify, but a good indication of his tactical play is the fact that our best player so far in qualification has been our goalkeeper - not our strikers. Barcelona only play as well as the opposition let them and if you only ever watched their two games against Chelsea, you would think they were a pretty ordinary team.

Two games that should have changed attitudes yet seemed to have little impact until the recent signing of Surat Sukha were the 2-1 victory of Persik Kediri over Sydney and Melbourne's 3-1 drubbing at the hands of Chonburi the following season.

Yup, barca and dutch footy generally play a pressing game. As does man utd and just about all the top teams - it's a luxury when players don't track back to defend, and it's unheard of for players to have enormous amounts of time on the ball without any pressure being applied, especially in midfield. These teams are not dull. The teams that sit back at the elite level, unless very very good or lucky, will almost always be punished. HAL teams new to the ACL probably knew this, they are (afterall) professional players and coaches and would almost certainly have preached this in the HAL - the CCM in particular were good at closing down midfields when they were in their prime. However, maybe the CCM newbies didn't realise how to apply, or at least perform at the required level, such an urgent pressing game when playing opposition of the calibre of a Gamba or Kashima? The standard needed against these clubs is higher but not that much higher than their regular games. So maybe it wasn't just the coaches tactics initially employed but also the playing personnel? CCM struggled long before the ACL. The players just weren't up to it. They didn't have a good squad (or morale) for the ACL and still were only shaded in most of their games. that's not to say they did well but they were only shown up badly once. MV's next venture into Asia. Once bitten, twice shy i think applies here. As for AU the second time they proved themselves a cut above tactically and, if it wasnt for goal difference (personnel), they might have won silverware at home too. Am not sure they will make the finals next year but hope they get to the knockouts again. It's why i agree with Pip on his assessment of AU. You dont get to the finals by being naive. Or for that matter to the knock out stages - so kudos to the Jets who on their first attempt are flying. Conversely, I think the asain clubs will be learining more and more how to deal with the bigger physical styles from the HAL (altho 5-0 sort of makes it a fanciful notion that Japanese clubs dont know how to already). Ben i agree re: the need to be exposed to different football cultures: wasn't this ultimatley the point of joining asia (money aside) - to have meaningful games at all levels in which to compare, contrast and develop our game from. different players (the u13s currently), different tactics and approaches (as Adelaide did so well) and learning some lessons (CCM stand up please). We take the knocks now, but hopefully all those involved are going back and rethinking how to approach these new challenges or finetuning what they might have thought they already knew. This can only be good.

True Davidde, but you might need to be Messi or Xabi to look good playing it.

Great article, excellent comments!

This is the beauty of the ACL, Davidde. We cannot sit in ignorant comfort as we find ourselves exposed regularly to different styles, tactics and environments. Asia is teaching us how to think and become adaptable which explains why Adelaide did so much better in their second ACL attempt than their first. The next ACL will be interesting as for first time Australia will have two clubs with ACL experience entering the competition. Then we will discover how much we have really learnt. The more clubs that have exposure to the ACL the better we will become tactically.

It's easy to look at some of the scorelines AU suffered in the last stage of the ACL and beyond and conclude that they were tactically naive. But over the full course of the ACL - I reject that notion outright. Have we already forgotten that AU defeated a Korean team away 2-0 (and the other mob were clearly superior in a technical sense), and also got past Kashima and the Uzbeki mob. In all of those games - it's impossible to argue that AU were tactically naive - the opposite is true - they won those contests because they were tactically astute games - in every sense - from their defensive set ups and discipline to see out the game plan right through to the last minute time wasting shenanigans to protect a lead (which showed up the sort of street smarts we have rarely witnessed in any Australian team at any level).

"MVDave is right. Do we really want this at this stage?" Tactically aware teams? No, that would be a disaster.

Tactics play a huge part in the quality of our teams, but there are also plenty of other factors - particularly fitness (which has been discussed in brief a few times, on this site). Adelaide were quickly run into the ground at Hindmarsh, despite starting well. The Adelaide that appeared in the Club World Cup was more switched on - albeit a few tired legs, like Christiano - and Vidmar had clearly done a much better job at finding ways to break down Gamba's midfield. You're right. Ideally. we would have foreign, technically-efficient coaches at our clubs, with Australian assistants being taken under their wings, to develop their knowledge for the future. But we also need to go further back, with better/more coaching courses, and player development programs that help better the ability to read the game.

i disagree with the comments that where tactics and organisation improve the game necessarily becomes drab. improved quality across the pitch will never be equal. there will always be a player or formation or injury that tips it one way or another. are EPL games or Primera games drab because the players are better organised and tactically aware? it might mean that there are less sloppy goals and embarrasing defensive lapses and a need for more creative players and one touch passes, in which case so be it!

MVDave is right. Do we really want this at this stage?