Football's second coming will be great

If the A-League 2 (not the Bangladesh B-League) does happen, I hope the mission from the FFA is that they have Football teams in every state/territory of Australia and every island/province of New Zealand for the betterment of the game. The second tier league needs teams in Canberra and Tasmania (I am assuming if they don't get into A-League One initially). But they need to seriously look at Darwin, a 2nd Western Australian side down in the Peel Region, Queensland's Sunshine Coast, Central Queensland, a 2nd Brisbane team down at Logan, Geelong etc. If New Zealand were to get a second team base them in the South Island at Christchurch The point is that the A-League has the unique opportunity to cover every market and this is something the other codes wont even entertain to do. Also why have a 3+1 rule when we should employ a 3+2 rule or 3+1+1 whereby not only should one of our imports come from the Asian Football Confederation but maybe there should be an import spot that comes from the Oceania Confederation (this should not include New Zealand though) End of rant.

P&R? Well how is the club that is regegated supposed to survive?, and how can the the other clubs in the second tier survive? There are plenty of NRL and AFL and Rugby clubs barely surviving. In this economic climate the corporate dollar only goes so far. The crowds for FFA are hardly massive (with no summer competiition) Take Melbourne Victory out of the equation (if they get relegated) then the FFA would just about fall over. If Lowy decides to pull out 'cause he has lost so much cash recently, then it's all over red rover.

Davidde - Interesting that those comments from the President of the Kuwaiti FA came after Kuwait failed to qualify for the 2007 Asian Cup. Finishing ahead of them were Bahrain and ... oh, what a surprise ... Australia! It seemed like sour grapes to me.

jimbo It greatly depends how its done.. the second division could use a number of models around the world.. this is an interesting model... The bottom two sides averaged over three years go into a knock out competition with the best four sides in the second division. Or a round Robyn with the six sides... interesting and orginal idea and is working in some of football most successful countries..

In my response to Andrew I said I had used literary licence. Same again to Towser, except that I would add spur-of-the-moment-without-giving-it-deep-thought as an adjective. But gee I'm glad some errant neurons did transmit this word to the end of my fingers, because it stimulated a legendary comment from Towser - thanks. In writing " Such behavior goes against our national grain", I don't believe I am implying this is so for Australians only! Even if I did not work with a couple of Yorkshiremen, I would well know that ... Re "I prefer to see Frank Lowy as a ‘Smart Bastard”", I believe I wrote in my posting "when Bin Hammam and Blatter say to the FFA “You must introduce promotion and relegation, you must have a knockout Cup”, and so on, then we have no choice but to hop to it." Pretty much the same thing as far as I can see. Re "How else to explain that so many European immigrants to Australia", where is the word ALL in this? I'm fully aware that there are plenty of indestructibles like Towser out there. But just for the record: one doesn't have to visit Melbourne too often to see just how into AFL the Greek community is. Ah, but they're not British? Well what about the Scotsman James McManus who was chosen in the NSW rugby league side this week? Listen to him talk about how his Scottish father brought him up in Australia to play rugby league. Anyway, no hard feelings Towser, sometimes it's worth being misunderstood if it elicits a fantastic reaction like yours. I do notice at this website that no matter how carefully one chooses one's words, there are lots of people who will completely miss the qualifications one has deliberately included. (Just thought I'd write a bit of Queen's English to really get a Yorkshireman's blood boiling.) Perhaps it's because he's a fellow author, but at least Davidde seems tuned in to me: "Greg you made some excellent points about the Australian sporting landscape and while I don’t fully agree I think it’s a very delicate and complicated issue." I couldn't agree more. And I'd be worried if people did fully agree with me!

PROM/RELEGATION IS A STUPID IDEA. HOw you all cannot see this I don't know. There is not enough money/players/depth in Australia to support a decent second division and relegation would not work in a franchise based system. Maybe, just maybe, if Football was the number 1 sport in australia with no other codes present would this be possible. THis is Australia, we need an AUSTRALIAN solution, not a european one.

Yeh, but Blatter is still a weasel.

Given our place in world football and the huge potential benefits of any of FIFA's decisions, we have to be ingratiating to get anywhere in world football. Blatter is a friend of Lowy's and Les Murray, Blatter's daughter used to live in Australia and worked at SBS for a while, so he has a soft spot for us anyway. We all thought that Blatter’s re-nigging on an automatic one FIFA World Cup qualification spot for Oceania was a huge disaster for Australian football, but moving into Asia has turned out to be the best thing that’s ever happened to the code. On paper, a national knockout comp and a second division tier looks like another great disaster waiting to happen, but who knows what can happen if it's done properly and it ever succeeds.

Last sentence out of place. Should be after:- Next Greg to your broad assumption that somehow the sons /daughters of immigrants flock to AFL/NRL/Rugby/Cricket.

Greg I'll buy into the argument & in this case put on my Yorkshire hat rather than my Australian one. First of all this statement "Also, as an Australian, does it not stick in the craw to see Lowy being so obsequious to Blatter all the time? Such behavior goes against our national grain.)" It also goes against a Yorkshiremans grain & probably dozens of other regional & national charicteristics around the world. What are you saying that the national charicteristics of Australia are that its a nation of "F*ck Yous" with a finger up to the rest of the world. Having lived the length & breadth of the country ,mixed with Aussies.Wogs,Poms the job lot in various states working on building sites,in factories,offices I assure you that the Australian born do not have a monopoly on'The finger up". Now for "obsequious":- "characterized by or showing servile complaisance or deference; fawning: an obsequious bow." Now you really are taking the piss regarding Frank Lowy. Have you read his book?. So Greg as a finger up Macho Aussie bloke have you never been "obsequious" in your life? I prefer to see Frank Lowy as a 'Smart Bastard". A man who knows how to make the most of an oppurtunity to suit his own ends. How do you think Frank should approach Sepp & MBH? As the quintessential Aussie Bloke:- "F*ck you Sepp you've got more holes in you than the cheese your country makes. Have a beer with me. What you dont drink beer only wine. Mongrel poofter. Now Sepp how about letting Australia have the World Cup in 2018 or 2022." Next Greg to your broad assumption that somehow the sons /daughters of immigrants flock to AFL/NRL/Rugby/Cricket. Show me the evidence. What I can show & prove to you is that until immigrants came to this country post war, Football was as popular as Malcolm Turnbull. I've been an observer for 40 years. When I came here,there was a miniscule playing base,no overseas players,the National team was comprised of 80% migrants,as for coaching "Go Son" was the phrase I heard the most. Suburban leagues were taken over by a supposed National League that was run along ethnic lines mostly. Hardly likely to attract the general populace. The Confederation we operated in provide no real opposition in order for football to develop at International level. Not only that it provided no money through gate takings at International level for the game to grow. Take today, a fully Aussie born National team ,with its players plying their trade in the Big European leagues. BIg crowds at Socceroo matches now were part of Asia. A domestic league based on location(& part of a bigger league the ACL) rather than Nationality & coaching systems in place to improve both coaching & playing standards,with talent identification also being improved. Now if the story had been that the sons/daughters of immigrants in the main opted for the other sports mentioned, I guarantee "Go Son" would still dominate & the Socceroos would be still 80% migrant born. That is not the case & the main reason it is not is because the majority of the sons/daughters of migrants have still chosen football as numero uno. Not to say that they do not follow these other sports,they do, but unless football had been their main focus, we'd be closer to Bhutan than Brazil. How else to explain that so many European immigrants to Australia abandon their natural cultural ties to football within one generation of arriving, and instead start devotedly following AFL, NRL or even rugby?

I don't even know what osequious means, but it sticks in my craw as well!! especially knowing that Blatter is such a weasel that would sell us down the drain as quickly as you can say "misappropriation of funds".

Since some people showed an interest in my (rambling) comment, a few quick responses: Andrew - when I used the word "never", obviously I was using literary licence. Roughly speaking the word "never" might mean "in my lifetime" (I am 45). Obviously I did not mean 1000 years! Football didn't exist 200 years ago, so no-one has a clue what 1000 years into the future holds for football! Pippinu - spot on in intepreting me ("I see Greg’s comment as being more along those lines, rather than being an overly negative comment. He is pointing out that it’s a lot harder than simply “turning up”"). Davidde - I am fully aware of FIFA's autocratic ways, and that when Bin Hammam and Blatter say to the FFA "You must introduce promotion and relegation, you must have a knockout Cup", and so on, then we have no choice but to hop to it. However that doesn't mean that I have to believe that such changes are correct. (Also, as an Australian, does it not stick in the craw to see Lowy being so obsequious to Blatter all the time? Such behavior goes against our national grain.) In general: I am fully aware that football is truly the world game, by streets and streets. One might conclude from this that it has an inherent superiority over other sports. But what strikes me is that when football is put in a relatively open sporting market, as in Australia, New Zealand and the USA, it does not naturally rise to a position of dominance. Why not? It strikes me that there must be things about the other footballing codes in these countries - their finals, their physicality, their frequency of scoring, their absence of promotion and relegation, etc. - that football does not have but which most people naturally like. How else to explain that so many European immigrants to Australia abandon their natural cultural ties to football within one generation of arriving, and instead start devotedly following AFL, NRL or even rugby? I am not saying that everything that goes on in these codes is worth adopting by football. But I do think that there must be some major lessons for football in this. I lived in Germany for 3 years, and I come to love football with a passion. But all the time I was aware that it simply had no competition in terms of being the major sporting entertainment on offer. What works in Germany (England, Spain, etc.) is not necessarily going to work in an environment like Australia where there is genuine market competition. That's all I'm trying to say. A legitimate response to this would be that football should not be the sport for the masses in Australia. But I don't think that many writers here of that view.

thinker I know many would support that move, but I can't see the FFA ditching the Nix any time soon.

The second Tier has impacts all the way down to Metro League level in NSW (U11) & creates a pathway for thousands of juniours to develop & increase the quality at the top level. Outstanding idea.

Towser, Do you think then that a salary cap would assist P & R rather than the free for all rich clubs dominate situation? Redb

Michael C: as part of the licensing system would be to own your own ground or be the main tenant, so cricket would not be a problem Pip: working on the assumption that the nix do not get an extension to the license (so 16 teams) even if that it is not the case we would welcome the actpl to the second teir and have 18 teams the whole idea of this system is not to have another national league and have a geographical dominance in the league eg no teams in WA and 8 teams in NSW

TV rights income is the essential ingredient here. Just look at cricket in this country. The domestic comp is supported at a very small fraction to the earnings of the association. The ACB's main income stream stems from their national team and mostly from TV rights from the sub-continent that being India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Now he FFA are a member of the AFC, at the last two world cups, the AFC countries represented the largest TV audience numbers in the world. What corportation if asked wouldn't want to tap into such a market. Thats why the ACL and Asia Cup are incredibly important to the success of the A-league and football in Australia. I personally love the romantic idea of 2nd division with P & R. However I will pose this question, "would you agree to a 2nd tier P & R system, with the 2nd tier being supported by the big end of town from TV rights or increase the salary cap to 10 million per club and supported by the big end of town like the AFL does, by distributing TV rights funds to all clubs."? I personally would like to see quality than quantity.

Well the Blades lost their 60 million quid carrot yesterday by losing to Burnley in the play off for the EPL. http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25539327-29437,00.html So the hampster on the treadmill starts for Burnley along with Bolton,Wigan etc & the rest who are but cannon fodder for the league of four at the top. We definitely do not want this form of P & R here. What has happened compared with the old days of P & R before the EPL is that the gap between championship teams & below & the top four cannot be bridged. You have in effect a 4 team EPL & a championship level league comprising of the restb of the EPL & the Championship itself. Here is another point of view re P & R from Simon Hill offering several scenarios,the last line being;- "And therein lies a very thorny issue for FFA - they have an Asian problem, but it requires an Australian solution." http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25540357-5000940,00.html Which concurs with what I said yesterday.

Pip - moving soccer to summer would create a real war footing with cricket. Both XI a side games chew up a lot of fields, and cricket especially in the rectangle domain often chews up 2 soccer/rugby fields at a time (if parallel).