Irony is a wonderful source of humour. It’s ironic that Aussie rules, which invented State of Origin, or rather an Aussie rules fan in Western Australia did, has let the concept lapse whereas rugby league, which copied it, has made the concept their own.
Ironic that the ARL roadshows rugby league in Victoria with a NSW v QLD State of Origin game.
Perhaps then it is now ironic that the success of league State of Origin, and it’s place on the sporting calendar, could be the catalyst for the reinvigoration of a traditional Aussie rules State of Origin.
Have we missed it enough?
Should the best of Victoria put on the Big V jumper and show the try-hards from SA and WA how to play the game?
In 2008, the AFL celebrated 150 years of football by putting on an exhibition match between a representative Victorian side versus the rest (dream team).
It was a pretty good game, with plenty of skill, goals and flair, as the best Aussie rules players were on the same ground at the same time.
There was some passion for the Big V in the 70,000 strong crowd, but really most of us would prefer the Croweaters were given a chance to knock us off or the Sandgropers from the west.
I can remember 90,000 attending a Victoria v South Australia game at the MCG about 15 years ago.
There was still some passion for State of Origin, but already the concept was showing signs of weakness as club loyalties crept into the thinking of players, coaches and club administrators.
The best players soon found an ankle problem or pesky hamstring to keep them on the sidelines. Without the best players it is pointless. If the players don’t care, why should we?
The Big V used to mean something, and I think the current crop of players are perhaps more mindful of the opportunity that representing your state presents.
Our NSW counterparts pretend that we in Victoria have less passion than our sister states for the concept.
If Victoria lost, it was because our best players weren’t available or we didn’t care enough.
The concept which was thought of in WA has always meant a little more to folk from SA and WA.
However, the youth of today don’t think like that. A glance around the 70,000 at the Victoria dream team game last year revealed a very young crowd, keen to cheer on their state.
They’re a parochial lot, these Gen Y’s.
As the AFL experiments with the international rules concept, it really should re-consider State of Origin.
Perhaps one match a year, and it has to be Victoria v South Australia for the first one, then rotate after that. A carnival?
Do we want to see the Big V again? Absolutely yes.
Disclaimer: I realise for South Australians or Western Australians this may be a painful experience.
SideshowBob
Guest
RedB, Not too worried here, mate. The best method to deal with these things is to show patience and restraint and to counter with facts. Most of the remarks are generally without substance or base, so it is a bit easier there. Anyway, I really see it a generational challenge to get a majority of the Australian public "positively responsive" or "active" towards the spread of the game internationally. At this point in time, I would guess approximately 80-90c in the dollar of seed investment needs to originate from Australia to help finance the grassroots programs in the number of condusive overseas regions (I can think of 10-15 regions ready in Europe alone) until they reach a point of self-sustainability (via local corporates or government derived grants / programs to tap into). International Footy, without its established heirarchy and the sport itself being exciting to watch and play, is a refreshing and high-action product to sell into many a local market. Australia is a popular brand and people are genuinely intirgued. Given this, it is somewhat easier to attract juniors to the sport and consequently start to tap into the various funding channels setup to counter rising obesity, youth crime and build social skills (as a result of the inward playstation-generation). But in a chicken & egg scenario, the seed money is needed first to get the local development resources into place, and thereby attract the external funding. In some ways the AFL needs to "kick the ball" off and seed invest across all regions. It they don't, it's that much harder to attract anyone else. But given the accountability by the AFL clubs for every dollar spent at the AFL, the really big challenge is to get the clubs and the Australian public in support so that it is simpler for the AFL to make these investments, and therefore create something to invest into for external organisations. "Build it and they will come". At the moment, there is some annual grants funding targeted toward the near-shore markets of NZ, PNG and further afield in South Africa. While that is a great initiative, it also creates a small "haves" handful of countries (3) who have any realistic chance of winning an International Cup in the foreseeable future. If we take the example of other international sports like ice-hockey/handball/rugby/basketball/soccer/cricket(?), it needs to be up around 6-10 nations with a reasonable chance. This makes good media awareness and TV. Everyone likes a tight competative game, especially in tournaments of nations. And having this in footy, despite the "lower" standard of play, can only be good news for the sport. - SSB
Pippinu
Roar Guru
Spencer sounds like a classic cae of cultural cringe - look at yourself in the mirror and grow some balls.
Redb
Roar Guru
Sounds good MC. You wouldn't have had much time to look at those participation numbers on Friday night - what a cracking game. Redb
Redb
Roar Guru
beaten not beated. ;-)
Redb
Roar Guru
Timmuh, Some good ideas, the potential for a state based carnival grows as both NSW and QLD grow. We can see from some of the Under18s games that Vic Country and Vic Metro are getting beated fairly easily by WA and SA. SideshowBob, Don't worry about the anti AFL footy brigade, their the first to criticise the game for not being international enough and in the next breath will attempt to betlittle any attempt to grow the game on the internaitonal stage. As Dennis Cometti said in the commentary on Friday at the Carlton V St Kilda game "We have the greatest game on the earth, don't worry about that" Just how the AFL allocates funds to international footy development could come from a number of sources. cheers Redb
SideshowBob
Guest
As the numbers grow, I'm confident the entrepenuerial types will develop their business models and offer a sustainable solution. Though in its infancy, a few startups like rooster footy and buyfooty.com are already doing some good business in Europe and Asia.
The Answer
Guest
Sideshow, As shown on this site, in many of the countries where the game is supposedly booming, you can't even buy balls and jerseys. Dream on.
SideshowBob
Guest
Around 40 countries and 50,000 players overseas of which around 80% are non-Australians. This game is no longer contained to Australia but it does need some investment (most likely to come from Australia) to ease the road ahead for the current set of motivated volunteers.
SideshowBob
Guest
SOO is a great concept that could even be greater if $5 of every ticket sold goes to International Footy development. Once a year, one game, $5... to help give international footy a kick forward. Forward thinking enough?
Michael C
Guest
Pippinu - it originated at a common work place - and there's still enough guys still there that a supervised drawing lots out of a hat can be done. The top 5 were D.Cox, G.Ablett, J.Bartel, L.Franklin and then I came in at 5 and picked up A.Sandilands. It's a brilliant comp, the draft night is a ripping evening.
Timmuh
Guest
I'd love to see SoO back. But it won't happen. It has to rate in Victoria, and that means Victoria has to play every game. Which ultimately means Origin would be the title used for more of the farce we saw last year. Better to have no Origin than to have conglomerate teams. Given that the Ireland games are going to continue, which is another matter, every second year; Origin could be played in the post-season of the year without games v Ireland. 2009 - host Ireland 2010 - Origin qualifiers 2011 - tour Ireland 2012 - Origin finals In a dream world, something like the following - Start with seeds: 1 Victoria 2 South Australia 3 Western Australia 4 Queensland 5 Northern Territory 6 New South Wales 7 Tasmania 2010 Week One A: Victoria v Queensland B: South Australia v Western Australia C: Northern Territory v New South Wales 2010 Week Two D: Loser A v Loser B (Winner seeded 3, loser to play for the right to play in the top 4) E: Loser C v Tasmania (Winner seeded 6, loser 7) 2012 F: Winner A v Winner B - Final (Winner seeded 1, loser 2 next time round) G: Loser D v Winner C (Winner seeded 4, loser 5) Like the Davis Cup, when any two states/territories meet whoever played at home the previous time plays at home the next. Or Vic Metro/Vic Country could join SA and WA to make up the inital top four and give 8 teams. Or the ACT could form an 8th team. Tas and the ACT would rely partly (largely for the ACT if involved) on players outside the AFL, which Tas did in the past - and knocked over VicB with a few non-AFL players in the side.
Pippinu
Roar Guru
MC I like the idea of a draft (for a private super coach game) but how do you determine who gets Ablett? Draw lots??
Michael C
Guest
Redb - Supercoach and Dreamteam are okay, but I get bored when we all have the same basic 10 or 12 and a little variety on the edges and the same captain. I'm in a beaut private fantasy league that we've been running for years - I love it. 10 of us. Had a draft night, unique squads of 38, only one person has G.Ablett. And we run a full home and away over the first 18 rounds and then finals. It's brilliant. Alas tonight, I've only got Clinton Jones to have any interest in. And this round my back line is decimated having lost Embley and last week lost Michael Johnson and Roger Hayden and it looks like Henry Slattery is in doubt (will he be right or not for next week - he's list as 1 wk, but, is that a 'normal' week such that he wouldn't play for the Bendigo bombers this week but might be fine for Essendon next week?????) (I'm hoping Sam Power holds his place for North, otherwise, I risk being 2 short before we even start!!) Have a good weekend. Carna Roos - good to see Cruize Garlett set to debut.
Redb
Roar Guru
MC, I think the smaller state always has something more to play for and they tend to step up. Look forward to those stats. Look forward to the Saints- Blues clash as well. There was a time when I only watched the Bombers, times have changed. Redb
Michael C
Guest
Redb - I'll do the 15 years ago exercise for you tonight watching the footy. (I think actually I might have done it already). Brian - and obviously re QLD, with the NT side now playing in the QAFL, makes QLD an even more important footy state. When you consider there's about 400 NRL players and roughly only about 80 are from QLD, it makes the 49 QLD AFL players look pretty damn good from supposedly such a strong NRL state. It gives impetus to push ahead with the Gold Coast team as that will only increase the representation and - - to make it VISIBLE to the average Joe Queenslander - - there really is a need to gather together the best of QLD at some point in time.
Redb
Roar Guru
oops...just realised MC posted the state based player stats. ;-) cheers
Redb
Roar Guru
Michael D, I like your idea of the reigning champion state staying in the chair until knocked off. It keeps the SOO games at one per season, makes it relevant for at least 2 of the 3 states each year and then at least swaps one state in for the following year. Big tick. Brian, Appreciate where your coming from but I think the footy landscape has changed dramaticially in the last 15 years. An all indigenous team for example made up of WA,SA and NT players alone could be as good as any SOO Victorian team. Imagine the forward line and midfield with Goodes, Motlop, Ryder, Davis, Lovett, Burgoyne, etc. It would be an interesting exercise to divvy up the current 700 players in the AFL based on state and compare it to 15 years ago we might find a much broader spread, certainly the Vics would be dominant in numbers but perhaps not in talent. (yeah I'm throwing you croweaters and sandgropers a bone :-) ). More Queenslanders than ever before and a good crop of NSW players. Ren, Vic Metro and Vic Country is a good way to split the talent working out who gets to wear the Big V might an issue :-) Redb
ren
Guest
make it so a round of matches only happens every 4 or so yrs, meaning players will only get one or two opportunities to earn a jumper- by making it a bit more special and more of an honour. he difficulty remains in who plays who. there are three stronger states and three into two just doesnt go. so vc and vm seems to be a good option (it works well at age group level) but any 'dreamteam' concept ideas are absolute rubbish and does the concept a diservice. did anyone else see that the WAFL beat the VFL and the WAAFL beat the VAFL this year. go WA!!
Michael C
Guest
Brian - one thing you can see from those stats is that already NSW and definitely QLD have surpassed Tassie. Not many people are will to admit this, but, already QLD is definitely the number 4 state - - but, with 'upside' factored in, QLD is rapidly approaching number 3 status. NSW obviously looks better due to the Wagga/Broken Hill/Albury triangle. I guess relevant to all this - I often wonder why we don't have a modern day re drawing of state boundaries to move beyond lines on maps drawn in the early 1800s when concerns were much, much different and we were talking 'colonies' rather than 'states' of a commonwealth. Really the Murrumbidgee would be a far better border than the Murray, Wagga to straddle the border, Albury goes to Vic, give Broken Hill/Silverton and Mildura/Wentworth to Sth Aussie. ACT would suddenly straddle the NSW-Vic border too. But - the result would be a severely depleted NSW SoO AFL team!!!!
tifosi
Guest
Lots of valid arguments. Its hard to see the SOO concept coming back to the AFL, two new teams makes the scheduling even harder. (Drop the pre season cup would help fitting it in though) But the AFL did drop the ball ( no pun intended) with the concept they originated to the benefits of the other codes. The A-league rivalry between adelaide utd and the Victory happens mostly because of the hatred between SA and VIC that exists in Australian Football. The victory even uses a similar Big V shirt. Rugby League used the SOO concept to create the highest form of the game. Ultimately it comes down to the willingness of the players to fully commit to it. If the players are on board it stands a chance.