A European Super League is fact not fiction

I think its time to start the war ... FIFA need to fight back... no use putting it off until the G14 are more powerful...

Art I think you're spot on about the average German fan - but it's a global industry now - it's not the German fan they will have an eye on (the G14) - it's the rest of the world. By the way - it's probably not great news for us either (as we try and make the ACL credible and viable) - because if most of Asia tunes into some new European comp (and they mostly are already of that persuasion) - we will probably never be able to raise the status of the ACL.

Sorry Davidde but the G14 don't hold any cards. I will give you an example. Do you actually think all of Germany will tune in to watch Bayern Munich let alone Bayer Leverkusen (who are in the G14) play week in week out in a league most Germans could not give a damn about? The reason why the UCL has credibility is because it is seen as a reward for doing well in your domestic championship. This is why people take an interest in the competion because the teams are representing their country. You should give more credit to the fans and less to the money men.

Das if it comes off - it won't be for the purest of motives that's for sure!! On the other hand, putting aside our emotion and own interests, one could argue that consoldiating the very best players in the world in the one comp who play each other every week would be of massive interest to the World's fans (and that might be right too).

To me, it seems like greed to excess It's not enough that they have so much money from their past success so that they can buy even more success. Which is bad enough in my opinion They want to now remove any marginal chances that they might miss out on UCL spot in the future. Sounds like bunch or oligarchs colluding together to remove all competition for success and money. It's not enough they already have a huge competitive advantage over other clubs. I like to think that if the UCL remain this way, you may see some eastern european clubs starting to improve and do better. I think the russian clubs (which quite possibly none of them will make the super league) have potential to become regular knockout stage participate in the next 10 years as they are now getting the money to somewhat compete with the big clubs. I don't buy it when people say that these are the big clubs, and this will stay that way forever so why fight the super league. Manchester City will one day join the elite as long as they have the owners pumping in money., I believe one of the russians clubs will as well. Things are never permanent.

see also: micallef getting a rightful pasting for his views on the overrated-by-some Cahill on TWG.

Das they are fighting it - but even Arsene is hinting that eventually they will cave in. When clubs become so big, wealthy and powerful that a spot in the UCL is all but guaranteed - I really don't see all that much difference between that and them starting a league (and you are right that it may well have the unfortunate consequence of consolidating their power for ever more - which I agree is undesireable). True, lesser teams are unlikely to have their 5 minutes in the sun - but let's all be very honest here - the CL stopped being about the lesser teams a very long time ago.

The difference is that one way, they earn their position in the league. THe other is that they get in by default or divine right or purely by the name. The super leagues is basically rich clubs want the benefit of the UCL without the risk (that you may not qualify and get into financial trouble). Let look back 15 years ago. Teams like Chelsea and Arsenal would never have the reputation to make the G14 and be considered in the super league (maybe in the past you would consider the likes of leeds or newcastle united etc). Nowadays, it's unthinkable for a UCL to not have Chelsea and Arsenal. This is because these clubs manage to improve their on field performance (by different methods) and earn their right to join the elite european clubs and now they are established themselves as part of the european elite. By having this euro super league, you can pretty much say good bye to the Arsene Wenger like revolution ever happening again as you are preventing other clubs from progressing and joining (or displacing) other elite clubs. It's funny that Arsene Wenger is one of the major proponent of the super league, as if the super league happen in the past, his precious Arsenal would never be allowed to be involved with it. Clubs like Arsenal who are now members of the G-14 shouldn't forget their roots that they were a fairly modest club with little european pedigree and that the meritocratic system that world football operates allowed them to succeed. Now we find clubs like them are trying to destroy the system that made them successful. PSV and Ajax are part of the G-14, whose to say that in another 10 years time AZ Alkmaar who surprisingly won the Eredivisie will become just as good as those two club and create their own history by doing well in the champions league. The super league will pretty much prevent AZ the opportunities for them to ever reach the heights of Ajax or PSV side in the past. Manchester City now has the moolah to challenge the top 4. Should we then just change the system and ensure that Manchester City can never join the elite clubs no matter how they perform in the leagues? Art also summarise it quite well with the likes of Wolfsburg (although Bayer Leverkusen is a member of the G14 so they are quite possibly be invited to the super league) This proposal is so inherently unfair and quite frankly anti-sport. UEFA and FIFA should fight this with all their strength.

It's all a question of getting a share of the filthy lucre. There's now a wide assortment of ratbags involved in some of these larger clubs - we cannot be sure to what extent they will share Platini's perspective on things. We've seen this sort of scenario play out a few times in Australia - in fact, we know more about this sort of thing than the rest of the world does - be assured that when the price is right - people follow.

These clubs can't just run off and form their own league. Its not that simple. They will become pariahs. The players would not be registered by FIFA or UEFA. They would not be able to play in World Cups or Euro championships. Also, last time I checked UEFA was rolling around in lots of filthy lucre. This is why they hand out over a billion dollars to the clubs competing in their club competions. This is money they generate from broadcast rights and sponsorship deals. Do you think they would let some uppity clubs that are rolling around in their self-inflicted massive debts take that source of income away from them. UEFA holds all the cards here and I can't see Platini doing the rich clubs a favour. His responsiblity is to the football community of Europe.

Art The Bundesliga has certainly changed some things a bit - we all understand that the Bundesliga is a bit different to the other big leagues for a number of reasons - but how many are going to follow the lead of the Bundesliga? These clubs will not tip over just like that - they will take matters into their own hands - this is the crucial point that everyone is missing - and you can be assured that the Pay TV stations will talk to them if that's what they decide to do, with or without UEFA's nod. I'm not saying I'm for or against - none of the teams I have an interest in will be invited to join, that's for sure - I'm just reading the tea leaves and I'm seeing a scenario where the combination of 10 to 12 clubs would outstrip pretty much all governing bodies by a factor of 100 to one in terms of wealth, power and influence. You get someone like Murdoch harnessing that - and UEFA will be like an umbrella holding back the tidal wave. Big clubs with the world's very best players - they'd virtually be able to name their own TV rights.

This is why the Euro Superleague will be a joke. A team like Wolsburg will never be invited to the Super League yet they beat Bayern to the Bundesliga title fair and square. A team like Bayer Leverkusen made it to the UCL final yet they would never be invited to to the Super League. Lazy mediocrity will be rewarded just because you have a name. Pip said - "It’s inevitable that there has to be a European Super League - the money required to keep these very top clubs from tipping over the edge is now way beyond our reckoning " What a load of nonsense. Pip. What are we going to do next? Bail out football clubs like we did the banks! Let them tip over!

Greg you may well be right re Celtic. Das to be honest - I don't quite get your logic. Pretty much the same top teams are in the CL year after year (we can ignore the cannon fodder on the margins) - so what difference is there if they finish top 4 in their domestic league every season, or if they just take a permanent spot in a new comp specifically designed for the biggest clubs in the world? If there is a difference, it's pretty marginal to be honest. The only argument I can see in your favour is that a country's top 4 might change over a 20 to 30 year period - and that's probably true - although that is not the experience in Holland where three teams have shared the championship over a period of some 45 years (with only one exception).

Would he though Greg?? ... one thing that always amazes me is that every year during the various transfer windows - names fly left right and centre - yet Cahill is never mentioned .. he's a good fit for Everton no doubt - but he's really neither one thing or the other ... he's not a tireless midfielder - and not an out and out striker ... the big 4 in the PL haven't looked at him .. and now Man City with all their cash weren't interested ...

"How many of the Socceroos would be involved in a European Super League? If it began today, only Scott McDonald at Celtic would stand any real chance." 1. Neither Celtic nor Rangers are amongst the 18 in the G-14 (I love that logic!). It would be impossible to split them in terms of being in a European Super League, but would there be room for 2 Scottish teams? I doubt it. Therefore I conclude no Celtic. Their budget is considerably smaller than England's top 5 (exact figures, anyone?), so why should they be in? 2. It would be crazy of a European Super League team not to recruit Cahill. He would get a gig.

I hate this super league. It is anti-competitive, elitist and anti-sport. Sport is about saying we deserve to be in the elite by proving it on the field. Ultimately, to qualify to the UCL you have to demonstrate you are worth that spot by performance and winning matches in your national league. This Super league is antithetical to whole ideals of sport. Sport is not saying we are a superior team and deserve to be in the best league by default without demonstrating it on the field. This super league reeks of "divine rights" that Recoba spouted out back in 2005. Creating an elite league that separates from national league nad gives club automatic spot in that league and no prospect of relegation and promotion will completely erode sporting ideals and should be rejected. In any case I suspect Jamie is right. Platini is making the UCL more open this year and giving national champions a greater chance of making the group stages of the UCL. Why on earth would someone like Platini decides to completely abandon his vision to a more egalitarian UCL. Would FIFA stand by and let this rubbish happen. I seriously doubt it. FIFA is a rich enough organisation to take on these super clubs. IMO there shoud be work to connecting each confederation clubs competition and international competition and trying to combat the growing euro-centric nature of the game

The clubs are huge, so huge that they actually can't easily create a Super Liga cause how many of them are left. The aritcle states the Champs League is exciting cause of the number of potential winners but I disagree. 10 months away and I would say the UCL will be won by either Real or Barca although Chelsea and Liverpool are serious threats. Than say Man U, Arsenal, Inter, Juve, Milan, Munich are very very outside shots. Thats only 10 clubs using a knockout system. If it were a league I would happily declare a three horse race Barca, Real, Chelsea.

It's inevitable that there has to be a European Super League - the money required to keep these very top clubs from tipping over the edge is now way beyond our reckoning - it's obvious to me that they can't remain at that level within the existing club comps - something much bigger is required.

this topic goes on and on and on and on. I remember hearing the same thing in the late 80s and nothing has really changed in terms of this debate. In 1992 the Champions League was introduced and then further developed to provide more games. People forget that when the second phase was another round robin of group games, the fans and broadcasters were left with too many meaningless games, hence reverting back to the knock out system for the last 16. The UEFA Cup recently brought in group matches but overall it has hardly set the world on fire - again a lot of meaningless games. I realise that the push for a European League is all about money and the chance for TV viewers to watch the 'glamour' clubs but what about the mid table dull games. The EPL has its fair share of dreadful games but at least there is a bit of rivalry and atomsphere. Would Man Utd fans rather have an away game to Portsmouth or an away game to Standard Liege? From a purist point of view (and not from a commercial one) the top leagues (Spain, England, Italy and Germany) cannot be beat in terms of overall quality, atmosphere and attendances. There would be an interest from the 'big fish in small ponds' eg Celtic, Rangers, Ajax, PSV, Anderlecht, Lyon. Sporting Lisbon etc but really is that what football fans want? Maybe im in minority but the set up with national leagues, Champions League and Europa League is fine.