Africa, not Asia, is the real third force

bandwagoner.

South Korea did export players as early as the late 70s- Cha Bum Kun to Germany and Huh Jung Moo (now South Korea coach) to Holland, and both did well. And Yasuhiko Okudera was Japan's first export to Europe, enjoying a similarly long stay in Germany. Iranian players have tended to do well in Europe as well. I am more saying that despite Africa's off-field problems, the fact that they have continued to develop outstanding talent and be very competitive is itself a miracle. The fact they have been doing this since the 60s shows that despite being the least developed continent economically, they have been well-developed in many aspects of the game, in terms of producing talented players and teams, having a high degree of passion and awareness for football. Above all they are open to foreign influences- both in terms of hiring coaches, and exporting talent to Europe and periodically to Asia and the Americas. Let me also talk about the miracle of little Rwanda punching above their weight- qualifying for the Nations Cup in 2004, and in the second stage of 2010 World Cup qualifying. All this despite the fact they are a small nation recovering from the horror of a genocidal civil war, with a limited population base and a mostly home-based squad.

I think we are going around in circles. Africa has more top quality players in Europe and more top quality players in general. The premise of your article is completely correct now, on the park Africa is superior...but off the field they suffer. Those of us sprouting about Asia's potential are all talking about in the future. Africa will keep pumping out the players but I feel a world cup winner is more likely to come from Asia first. I just brought up the fact about the Koreans in the EPL because it's a surprising stat and defies some of the outdated stereotypes that they can't handle the physical stuff. There is less of an incentive for Asian players to leave their home continent because of the realtively easy riches on offer in Japan, Korea and the Middle East than trying to adjust to a totaly new culture. But I doubt there is a Drogba, Adebayor or Toure hanging around in the UAE.

Tiresome cliches again. You obviously never saw the Algerian sides which had Madjer, Assad and Belloumi, or Tunisia with Dhiab and Lahzani, or Egypt over the years (Al-Khatib, Abou Zaid, most recently Abou Treka). Never mind Nigeria and Ghana producing naturally gifted players of the highest order over the years. Or Guinea's sides from the 1970s. And of course what about Eto'o, Kallon, etc?

Only Grella & Scwartzer have played in the EPL this year from our squad. If Scwartzer has a problem with his thigh carrying over from the weekend leaving Grella as the sole EPL representative, itt would be our lowest EPL representation in a Euroroos team in years.

In the Korean team to face the Socceroos there are 3 players who have featured in the premier league this year.

In this thread: Africa is better because ra ra ra ra stronger better performances Asia is stronger because ra ra ra ra more technical, better recent results Africans are more likely to go to the EPL then asians because of a) less stellar opportunites on the homefront b) the EPL loves its argy bargy and speed. Given the current trend in world football to continually degrade the finer aspects of the sport by encouraging tackle-by-foul and saving our condemnation until someone actually breaks something, its little wonder that most asian footballers would prefer to stay on the homefront where they are a bit more protected from the Martin Taylors and Kevin Muscats of this world. And given the stigma that asian players carry for having the strength of a feather on the wind its little wonder that the butch man leagues aren't necessarily that interested. The richer, more competitive Asian nations (including Oz) have access to world class training facilities. So my wager would be on Asia becoming the third force sooner rather then later.

Jamie, CONCACAF have two teams who are usually competitive (Mexico and USA) and then teams with either a long tradition in their own right (e.g. Costa Rica, Honduras, El Salvador) or are able to become competitive by other means (e.g. Caribbean nations like Jamaica, Trinidad & Tobago and Grenada utilising their British links). Trinidad & Tobago held Sweden off with 10 men and were holding England for all but the last 7 minutes. Jamaica even beat Japan in France '98. And some way back, Haiti gave Italy a scare in 1974 (which was Italy's first goal conceded in eons). Let's not forget too that Honduras managed a credible showing in 1982 (a draw with the hosts Spain was a major shock at the time) and Costa Rica also reached the second round in 1990 and qualified for two subsequent World Cups. And the last World Cup? Trinidad & Tobago, Costa Rica and USA all finished bottom of their group (albeit the USA drawing with the eventual winners of the whole thing)- but so did Japan, Iran and Saudi Arabia.

People complain about CONCACAF because it gets far more world cup spots than it deserves.... I mean, can anyone seriously argue that CONCACAF deserves 3.5 slots in the world cup? That's a "free pass" to the USA and Mexico, and then there's still another 1.5 places available for the little guys to fight over. Surely 2.5 places is plenty. Asia, likewise, probably has too many places. I'd like to see half a place taken off Asia and a full place taken off CONCACAF. They can then be given to Africa and South America, where there seems to be much more depth.

They have allready produced Paulino Alcantara. Unfortunately back then you played for whatever country you played club football in so after moving to europe he played for spain.

Good post TT - the day Asia produces someone like Eusebio will be the day we know Asia has arrived.

The comments are confusing. Some people are comparing historical facts, while others are looking to the future. Some compare club teams others talk about national teams. Currently: Asian club teams and domestic leagues are stronger then African leagues. The J-League & K-League are better then any African leagues. In the future, the Asian leagues will develop faster, there is better sports science technology, and better player conditions and wages so these leagues will experience better growth and continue to improve faster on and off the pitch then African leagues. National Teams: The best Asian teams vs the best African teams at last world cup showed Asia to have a slight edge. Players: Africa has produced better players then Asia, they have close ties to Europe and all the top teams in Europe have African players. There is no doubt that the best African players dominate the best Asia can offer. I imagine this trend will continue. Summary: Africa has had a more successful history, their top end players perform at the top clubs and their national teams have more talented players. Asian leagues are developing at a much faster rate, the passion for the game is increasing and they will continue to improve.

One of the key reasons why the Africans have a greater pedigree than Asians is the colonial legacy. In particular for the French, this may be one few benefits they gave their former colonies. The African nations could always call upon guys who lived in say France/UK, but might not have been good enough to play for their home nation. Having said that, its a two way street, and I know many French clubs have talent scouts in the west African nations. This is also one of the reasons why there are now relatively few Southern Africans plying their trade in the big leagues relative to west Africans, despite the two most famous African clubs being South African. This has been the case for some time, Africa produced a player by the name of Eusebio, who of course played for Portugal, as Mozambique was not independent at the time. Asia has not produced a player in that vein. However I think the point of this article is correct in that the amount of $$$ in Asian futbol will potentially see them overtake Africa, which is pretty much an economic and political basketcase, and will probably be so for the next 50 years.

Can't argue with that. Countries like Bahrain and kuwait are well organised but the don't have the capability for brilliance like their African counterparts. I do think that the Asian confederation will start to pull away from Africa at the top level though. If you look at the ACL East is China 4 slots, Japan 4 slots and Korea 4 slots. 12 out of 16 so the focus is definitely on the top. African teams will always be great cup teams and have the ability to knock over big teams but if you put the 5 best asian teams in a league with the 5 best african teams i think the bottom 3 spots would be filled by african teams.

South Korea's World Cup run is more recent. North Korea's own performances were truly miraculous and had a real mystique about them. The problem is not so much at the top end of each confederation- the best of Europe, South America, CONCACAF, Asia and Africa are all competitive- it's more the middle and lower tiers that the real depth shows.

But what does it matter if some teams that aren't very good are allowed to play. Those featherweights take nothing away from the top teams. asia has it's own history too nth korea's run sth koreas Wcup run And player wise it doesn't get much better than Paulino Alcantara who comes from a federation than now doesn't even bother entering the world Cup. Africa might be the third power (marginally) at the moment but the future looks like more of the same where as Asia is making real and sustainable progress.

"Do we judge europe on the performances of Moldova, Luxemburg and the Faroe Islands? Having some undeveloped teams doesn’t detract from the positives." Those teams are still above the level of Asian and CONCACAF featherweights. Europe has the most depth of any confederation aside from South America. And Africa has produced some highly entertaining players and teams. You look at some of the results: 1978- Tunisia beat Mexico 3-1 and held West Germany to a 0-0 draw where by all accounts they were the better side. 1982- Algeria beat West Germany 2-1 and were robbed of a place in the second phase. Cameroon drew 1-1 with Italy and missed out on goals scored. 1986- Morocco drew 0-0 with England and beat Portugal 3-1 to top their group. Lost to Germany in the second round by a late goal. 1990- Cameroon reaches the quarter finals. Hard to argue with those achievements.

Maybe However I think it's a reasonable point to say that at international levels. Africa is indisputably stronger then the Asian region At club level its far more debateable. I think the J-league teams can give quite a decent match up with the best of african clubs side. Even if you think Al-ahly is a stronger then the A-league clubs despite the results going against them. At the very least you can conclude that the difference between Al-ahly which is probably the best club in Africa and A-league isn't that much and the best of A-league can be reasonably competitive with the african clubs. One-off matches or not. They certainly didn't outclass us

Do we judge europe on the performances of Moldova, Luxemburg and the Faroe Islands? Having some undeveloped teams doesn't detract from the positives. Africa has been the future for years. 2010 will be their best shot at upsetting the apple cart. But It's not just about talented individuals which is why I don't see Africa ever fulfilling that promise. Asia on the other hand is in a much better position to catch up, it has more money and the J league is better than any league in Africa. At the last world cup Korea beat Togo iran and angola drew tunisia and Saudi arabia drew So the physical african style may bother the European teams more but the way football is going the general possesion game favored in asia should do better in the long term. The fact that few teams repeatedly qualify doesn't nessesarily indicate depth it also shows that their planning and administration may have flaws. If a team like senegal was good enough to make the latter rounds does their failure to qualify for the next world cup indicate the other teams are better or internal problems. Every other continent has teams that have natural advantages and repeatedly qualify, the fact Africa doesn't is not likely a positive thing. Teams like Nigeria and Ghana should be qualifying regularily but their administration lets them down.

These one-off things can be very dubious.