The Tri-Nations needs Argentina. Why? To add some variety to a tired format and include a team that needs regular international competition and is deserving of a place at the SANZAR table.
An even number of teams is a better fit for a tournament than an odd number.
Four teams allows you to schedule double header matches each round, taking advantage of the timezone differences, and give rugby a high profile against other codes.
Four teams allows you to tweak the competition format to three rounds culminating in a final between the two teams with the most points. This means that home and away matches will alternate each year, like the Six Nations tournament.
Each team is guaranteed two home matches one year and only one in the alternating year unless they secure a home final finishing top of the table. You can retain the existing points allocation systems for wins and bonuses.
With two games a weekend, you can schedule a weeks’ rest between each round to offset the travel factor.
As I see it, there are three problems with the expanded Tri Nations format.
With only two teams playing each round, it creates a black hole of interest for the third country not involved. This makes it difficult to sustain any interest for the wider viewing public.
Without a true final to the competition, there is no natural climax for fans or broadcasters unless results and the draw work in their favour – such as last year’s “final” between New Zealand and Australia.
The expanded competition always means one team is disadvantaged with the draw and it takes too long to finish.
So a revamped format along these lines played over seven weeks for 2010 would resemble this:
Round 1
NZ (home) v Australia
SA (home) v Argentina
Round 2
Argentina (home) v NZ
Australia (home) v SA
Round 3
SA (home) v NZ
Argentina (home) v Australia
Final
Top two finishers
Paulo Roberto Sanchotene
Guest
It's a quite simple idea, but hard to accomplish: when it becomes "Super 16", the 16th franchise MUST be argentine! There is plenty of time, though, to make it possible.
QC
Guest
Excellent news, I'd like to know more about how they will get the Argies into the Super Clubs are all the teams expected to take a quota now or will it be optional? Also will the Northern Hemisphere cluns get in the way for selfish reasons. This can only be good for world rugby and only a few years late
Justin
Guest
Great news but the big obstacle is how are SANZAR going to get the best Argies to play in the S15? Thats going to require some cash, perhaps not as much as Europe currently pays (I would imagine the Arg RU would pay them some coin and the lure of playing Test football regularly would save some dollars also).
Brett McKay
Expert
Sam, I'm not sure if your article was the catalyst, but it's happened: SANZAR have today 'conditionally' invited Argentina to join the TNs from 2012. Conditional on them being able to guarantee the participation of their top players, the Four Nations will be played over home & away rounds for each country, taking the toal number of games from 9 to 12 (Each country will play the other three twice, H&A). Season will kick off after the extended S15 season. http://www.rugbyheaven.com.au/news/news/argentina-invited-to-join-tri-nations/2009/09/14/1252780263080.html
Paulo Sanchotene, Brazil
Guest
Put a Super 14 team in Buenos Aires! I would say two, to add also a derby, but I don't think the argentine economy could bear this. But one, it's doable. And it will be a great way to bring back the argentines that play in Europe.
Maul trash
Guest
Surely teams should play each other twice - once at home and once away - in a longer tournament? Or perhaps, in the interest of global warming, all players should fly to a different country each year country and play all the games there. Round 1 NZ (home) v Australia SA (home) v Argentina Round 2 Argentina (home) v NZ Australia (home) v SA Round 3 SA (home) v NZ Argentina (home) v Australia Round 4 NZ v Australia (home) SA (home) v Argentina (home) Round 5 Argentina v NZ (home) Australia v SA (home) Round 6 SA v NZ (home) Argentina v Australia (home) Final Top two finishers
Sam Taulelei
Roar Guru
Nick I'm not having a got at you but it's interesting that on the one hand you're clamouring for Argentina to be included and on the other you're concerned that if they are, in one year Australia's only home match could be against Argentina instead of NZ and SA under this format, and you would somehow feel robbed. Argentina would join SANZAR as an equal member and while their current playing standards may not be as high as the other SANZAR teams, isn't this exactly the reason why we want them to have regular international competition in the first place, to improve and ensure that the 2007 RWC wasn't an aberration? Besides the standard of rugby from NZ and Australia this year hasn't been much to write home about at all.
Sam Taulelei
Roar Guru
In an interview published in the Australan, SARU president Oregan Hoskins commented on a number of differing subjects concerning SANZAR but one comment certainly stood out for me. "Indeed, he said, the idea of Argentina coming in to form a Four Nations tournament that, despite the extra team would be more compressed because it would permit two matches each weekend, had been well received by broadcasters." According to Hoskins, the earliest timetable that Argentina could join an expanded Tri Nations would be 2012 which makes sense as it would be after the world cup. OJ I didn't flesh out the scheduling of my proposal to include the second year but Pothale's suggestion is the same as mine in that each team plays each other once and the home and away games will alternate each year exactly as it does in the SiX Nations. The only difference is that I've callled for a grand final to decide the winner while Pothale's has maintained the league system deciding the winner by the most points. With regards to the Bledisloe Cup my idea was to put it up for grabs each test match instead of over a series, kind of like a Ranfurly Shield challenge. Changing hands more often would add extra spice and it means that any long period of reign would be hard earned. Nick and Pasthisbest, I admit that your point about the avaliability of the top Argentine players was my main stumbling block (as I suspect it will be for the Argentine administrators and the IRB if Hoskins is correct) and my clumsy solution would mean no break at all between seasons for their players which isn't sustainable. Smarter minds than mine will have to sort out that conundrum and player availability generally between club and country.
Greg
Guest
Hey Sam, Something we can agree on! Argentina is a must ... (as is Japan).
Derm
Roar Guru
Sam - don't worry - the UK only makes up half the 6 Nations. The rest of us would be much nicer to you.
Dave
Guest
Allan - It took me quite some time o appreciate the quality of sport here, I am not going to beat around the bush but the Argies are a hard team/player of any sport to like. (Nalbandian is an exception.) Think back to the tennis player who spat at Hewitt at the Aus open, The last world cup, when they were knocked out by Germany. The boxing last weekend! When they loose, they loose bad, and their arrogance is on full display when they win. The Argentines have this reputation for a reason. However they continually do well in most team sports. They have huge hearts, don’t ever give up, very proud, patriotic and emotional people. Combine this emotion with the hard work they have to put in to get anywhere, due to lack of funding. This combination I think feeds their lack of composure at the end of a match. I don’t have any figures on funding for sports here but unlike Australia it is not a high priority. I think it would be correct that outside of soccer you have to have your own money to do well in sport here. That is another reason futbal is so important here, everyone is on a level playing field. Maradona and many other futbol stars learned their trade on the dusty streets of the slums. Many other sports are seen as a division in class. (Much more so than in Australia). I guess over the past five years I have seen Argentina do well in a myriad of sports to have no other choice but to recognise them as one of the best sporting nations in the world. Just an opinion, and purely based on performance not sportsman behaviour! Anyone that loves sport should do their best to come to Argentina and watch a match between Boca Juniors and River Plate. The mutual hatred and disrespect for the opposition is scary! The atmosphere even just in the Bars is 100 times that of state of Origin. It is not a game of sport but a war. I went to one at the monumental, River stadium in 2004, River won 2-0, the very next day there was huge billboard advertisements all through the city showing a dirty Boca Junior g-string lying in the middle of the River Plate Field. With the text reading – “ Hey Boca! You left this behind!!
Dave
Guest
I don't think people are worried about plagerism, i think it is more about the good of the game. I would just love to watch the wallabies play Argentina in a packed out Bombanera! (Boca stadium). For a smallish stadium i think it is about 45,000 it feels as though it is twice the size of ANZ packed with 80,000. If it was given time to develop Buenos Aires could become the most intimidating place to play in the world. There is 14,000,000 people living here so it would not be a big problem filling a stadium. Spaeking of sporting events, Argentina are playing Brasil in a world cup qualifier this Saturday Night. Surely a pay tv chanel will show it in Australia!
TommyM
Guest
The ABs and Wallbies could play a second Bledisloe match at the conclusion of the tournament (or two more for that matter).
ohtani's jacket
Guest
I imagine both SANZAR and the broadcasters would prefer Pothale's version to Sam's. After all, the entire reason they've expanded the Tri-Nations is for extra home fixtures and extra revenue. How does the Bledisloe figure into your schedule, Sam?
Brett McKay
Expert
um, not quite: South Africa New Zealand Australia RUGBY actually. SANZAAR would work just fine..
kraisch
Guest
Thanks for taking part in an elaborate stake-out to draw out expert English speakers. Your headhunter will be emailing you later about positions going in China. Tony Greig - now that's a South African Eastern Cape accent, assaulted in the south of England and mangled in OZ - possibly the first case of a Trans-Indian (Ocean) accent . Barry Richards a close second.
Jerry G
Guest
Chill out, it was just a comment about the accent Kraisch. I can imagine someone like Tony Greig saying "Sanzaaaaar". The 'both' was just a typo but if you want to start talking grammar there doesn't need to be an apostrophe in "Japie's" and the comma you put in after "average" is superfluous. Oh, and how does Australia get two letters in "SANZAR"?
kraisch
Guest
"both a Japie would say"? I think Japie's speak two languages at least on average, and before you retort with "neither very well", look at your sentence above. Play in the front row much, Jezz? :-0
kraisch
Guest
No-one noticed, but each country gets 2 letters in SANZAR - therefore argentinia would orobably get AG SANZARAG
AndyS
Guest
I'd love to see a full strength Argentina competing regularly in international competition, but it is a pipe dream at the moment and is not real likely in the future. June this year saw the Argentinian first team playing England and the Jaguars playing in the Churchill Cup. The first team held their own, the Jaguars didn't, so the two collectively might well have been competitive. Unfortunately, Super rugby has just been extended right through their window of availability, unless they use the June inbound Test window. As for the News deal it is worth remembering that, financially, less is in fact just less...less money for grass roots development, club rugby and all those other good things. It is a nice ideal, but at the end of the day it is all about the cash. News might well be interested in the Argentinian rugby scene, but they are an international organisation and would not necessarily see any requirement to tie it into an existing product. That would only happen if the two together were worth more than separate, and less games for SA, Aus and NZ is only likely to mean less value.